The rogue - is it a necessary class?
- Thread starter der_kluge
- Start date
Norfleet
First Post
That's news to you? That's practically the first thing I look for now. I look at the date of the first post in the thread, and if the first post in the thread is more than a month old, I immediately do CRTL-F "Altalazar" on every page until I find his name. It never fails, and he's always the necromancer responsible for it.Staffan said:
sword-dancer
Explorer
2 Words
Infiltration
Versatility(Right Word?)
A good rogue sneaker/thief wahtsoever could be a good infiltrator especially when scryng and such things don`t function or are not a good choice to use.
Or when you don`t could or have the use of magic or magic items a good option.
Versatility
With his skill points a rogue could get very good skilled in many ares.
I would let a player if it its the Charconcept let change class skills for other skills.
Rogue not thief but investigator, diplomat, trader jack of all trades.
The sneak attack i thought would have better be exchanmged for special rogue feats like the fighter feats.
Infiltration
Versatility(Right Word?)
A good rogue sneaker/thief wahtsoever could be a good infiltrator especially when scryng and such things don`t function or are not a good choice to use.
Or when you don`t could or have the use of magic or magic items a good option.
Versatility
With his skill points a rogue could get very good skilled in many ares.
I would let a player if it its the Charconcept let change class skills for other skills.
Rogue not thief but investigator, diplomat, trader jack of all trades.
The sneak attack i thought would have better be exchanmged for special rogue feats like the fighter feats.
ruleslawyer
Registered User
Yes. The most popular WotC Character Optimization boards 20-level rogue build comes out at Rog19/something 1 or Rog20 for a reason; rogues get goodies at every level from 1 to 20, and rogues have the following assets:Urbannen said:
1) They are the ultimate utility character. A wizard simply cannot afford to prepare enough utility spells to last an entire day, even with the aid of items, assuming the standard wealth guidelines. Rogues can keep finding and disarming traps and unlocking doors with the best of 'em.
2) They are the ultimate sneaky character. Now that Hide has been decoupled from invisibility, rogue stealth is really, really useful at high levels. The high-level rogue in our party simply cannot be seen, even by creatures with see invisibility, unless they have insanely high Spot bonuses or blindsight (something that fewer creatures have in 3.5 than in 3e.)
3) The rogue's core abilities scale indefinitely. Skill bonuses and sneak attack both get more powerful as the rogue rises in level; while SA is offset by the number of creatures that are immune to it, it is enhanced by the rogue's increased ability to use it more often and more effectively in high-level situations.
4) The rogue is a really useful character out of combat. Investigation and social situations are the domain of the rogue more than that of any other character except the bard.
5) The rogue is customizable. Because the rogue is a skill monkey, you can make a combat-ninja rogue, a social rogue, or a thieving rogue.
6) Use Magic Device. I'll say that again: Use Magic Device. While it is true that magic can do a lot of the things that the rogue can do, the reverse is also true, and more so. The rogue in the party that I DM uses found magic items more often and to better effect than any of the spellcasters do; the ability to use both arcane and divine items and to combine those items with innate stealth and combat capability is absolutely devastating.
7) The hit points don't matter that much. On average, a 20th-level rogue has 40 hit points fewer than his fighter counterpart. However, the rogue can use healing wands, can simply stay out of combat, can run away under cover of stealth, or can use a Con-boosting spell or scroll to effect.
Norfleet
First Post
I've always been a big rogue fan myself. You get to be good at a great number of things. It's the versatility combined with competence that's appealing about the rogue: While a spell can replace a rogue on a one-shot level, you haven't really replaced the person, merely covered for his absence in a specific case. You can open a lock with "knock", but that'll cost you a spell slot to do. A rogue can open a lock for free. You can cast invisibility to sneak around, but that'll cost you a slot: A rogue can do this for free. You can acquire things by purchasing them with money, as any class, but that'll cost you, obviously enough, money. A rogue can do that for free, too. 
Yes, many other classes can pick up bits and pieces, but only a rogue can really do them all, at no cost, with no loss in competence. The argument that you can pool the resources of 3 or 4 other partymembers and thus accomplish everything a rogue could do is meaningless: The fact that you required SEVERAL PEOPLE to replace the functions of ONE PERSON at cost to themselves and the group should be an argument in favor of the rogue, not against it!
Finally, I have a not-really-all-that-mystical ability to roll any number I choose on a large number of d6ses. That, for me, is also a greatly compelling reason to be a rogue. It works pretty well as a wizard, too, as d4s aren't difficult either, but I hate running out of ammo.
Yes, many other classes can pick up bits and pieces, but only a rogue can really do them all, at no cost, with no loss in competence. The argument that you can pool the resources of 3 or 4 other partymembers and thus accomplish everything a rogue could do is meaningless: The fact that you required SEVERAL PEOPLE to replace the functions of ONE PERSON at cost to themselves and the group should be an argument in favor of the rogue, not against it!
Finally, I have a not-really-all-that-mystical ability to roll any number I choose on a large number of d6ses. That, for me, is also a greatly compelling reason to be a rogue.
It works pretty well as a wizard, too, as d4s aren't difficult either, but I hate running out of ammo.
Storminator
First Post
I find rogues are much less useful in a large party. die_kluge, your party has a cleric, a wizard, and a fighter/mage. You've got spells to spare replacing the rogue. What if you only had 3 people in the party?
I run a campaign with 3 PCs, all rogues. They are eternally grateful that they all have rogue levels. The skills constantly save their bacon, and each member of the party is versatile enough to play in a variety of game styles.
PS
I run a campaign with 3 PCs, all rogues. They are eternally grateful that they all have rogue levels. The skills constantly save their bacon, and each member of the party is versatile enough to play in a variety of game styles.
PS
Similar Threads
