The Saint template

[The Souljourner]

The description of becoming a saint in Exalted Deeds says that when you take (or more likely, are given) the saint template, you give up your next two levels, and the xp needed to reach the next level is as if you were two levels higher. It then goes on to say that this offsets the artificially low LA of the template. I'm trying to figure out what the heck they mean by that.

Level 6, you have 16,000xp and need 6k more to get to level 7. You acquire the saint template, and are now ECL 8, and need XP to get to level 9 before you get your next class level. That's 6k + 7k + 8k = 21k. So yeah, that's a long time. but you're currently ECL 8, with the xp of a 6th level character. You don't actually catch up to your ECL until two more levels.

I don't understand how this offsets the artificially low LA of the template. Anyone understand and care to explain?

-The Souljourner

 

[Vlos]

Not sure what the LA is? assuming it is 2, you are actually giving up 3 levels.

You just gained enough exp to advance (1 level) and gained the Saint Template. You then have to wait 2 more levels till you can advance again. Now when you hit 9, can you take another class or is that the cap for taking the saint, i.e.: when you hit level 8, you can then on your next level (9th) start taking class levels again?


1 Fighter
2 Fighter
3 Fighter
4 Fighter
5 Fighter
6 Saint
7 Saint
8 Saint
9 Some class?


I would guess?

 

[Gort]

The cleric in my game wants to take this template.

Anyone else think that a +6 insight bonus to AC (he has +6 wisdom) is a LOT, on top of the other bonuses of the template, for just +2 LA? He already has probably the best AC of the entire party.

 

[Scharlata]

The cleric in my game wants to take this template.

Anyone else think that a +6 insight bonus to AC (he has +6 wisdom) is a LOT, on top of the other bonuses of the template, for just +2 LA? He already has probably the best AC of the entire party.

Hi!

I, as a DM, got a monk saint in a two-shot adventure as "cohort" of a cleric.

The saint's insight bonus to AC from his Wis stacked with the unnamed bonus from Wis as monk. That is a major bonus.

The DC against his Stunning Ability was increased by +2. This is a medium/major bonus.

The unarmed attacks (watch for the flurry of blows) all got Holy Touch damage (+1d6 or +1d8 for every hit!). This was a major bonus.

Edited: ... just to name a few abilities. The other abilities/qualities (DR, FH, Immunities...) are not be neglegted!

The bless spell-like ability at will was a nuisance.

If you template the right class you got yourself a formidable opponent. Rogue or druid saints will not be as good as monk or paladin saints.

Kind regards

 

[The Souljourner]

Level adjustment is +2. This is the text in the book about gaining the template: "<prerequisites including "Must be at least 6th level"> A character who meets these criteria and achieves this pinnacle of sanctification can acquire the saint template.... Upon acquiring the template, ... the character sacrifices her next two levels of advancement in order to "catch up" with the (artificially low) level adjustment of the template. For example, a 7th level paladin who becomes a saint becomes the equivalent of a 9th level character. She must accumulate a total of 45,000xp to gain another level, becoming an 8th level paladin and a 10th level character."

Doesn't say you have to be able to gain a new level. And in fact, it doesn't even matter. You could do it at exactly 7th level or at the end of 7th level. All it says is that you're now considered a 9th level character, and you need a total of 45k to get to 10th, which is what you needed before you acquired the template.

I guess one drawback is that for the next two levels, you're gaining slightly less XP, because you're treated as a 9th level character, but that's not a huge drawback.

I do agree that the template is too good for +2, that much is obvious... but they're hinting at some mitigating factor here, and I just can't figure out what that is.

-The Souljourner

 

[brehobit]

I do agree that the template is too good for +2, that much is obvious... but they're hinting at some mitigating factor here, and I just can't figure out what that is.

I think the point is that the Saint template is too good for +2, no bones about it. But the roleplaying cost is fairly large. The fast healing, damage reduction and insight bonus to AC make this a dream for my Dwarven cleric (who is LN so no chance...)

Mark

 

[Impeesa]

The LA is "artificially low" because it is balanced by the extraordinarily strict roleplaying requirements. Whether roleplaying drawbacks can adequately balance out mechanical bonuses is another debate entirely, but that's the intent. The example text is the same as gaining any template mid-game, it's probably just the phrasing that's confusing.

--Impeesa--

 

[The Souljourner]

Hrmph. I was really hoping someone was going to point out something I missed.

I want this for a cleric I'm playing (who will have 27 wisdom at level 6, not counting magic items).. but I'm afraid my DM will shoot it down for being overpowered at +2 ('cuz it is).

-The Souljourner

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I want this for a cleric I'm playing (who will have 27 wisdom at level 6, not counting magic items).. but I'm afraid my DM will shoot it down for being overpowered at +2 ('cuz it is).

If you have a 27 wisdom at level 6 without magic, I'm not sure you need to worry about your DM shooting down anything for being overpowered.

 

[The Souljourner]

*grin* You'd think so, that's not the case He is trying to keep some semblance of balance, even at such high powered levels.

-The Souljourner