• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

The Shadowcaster -weak?

The shadowcaster is weak

  • Strongly agree

    Votes: 27 14.8%
  • Agree

    Votes: 66 36.1%
  • In the middle/don't know

    Votes: 73 39.9%
  • Disagree

    Votes: 12 6.6%
  • Strongly disagree

    Votes: 5 2.7%

WarlockLord

First Post
I have been having a lot of trouble trying to make a decent shadowcaster. Thus, I have concluded it's kinda weak. The path system and lack of decent combat fundamentals dooms it. Which is sad, as it has well-thought-out flavor.


If anyone has a decent single-classed shadowcaster, or disagrees with me, posts it here. If you disagree, post a good one.
 

log in or register to remove this ad



Greylock

First Post
WarlockLord said:
I have been having a lot of trouble trying to make a decent shadowcaster. Thus, I have concluded it's kinda weak. The path system and lack of decent combat fundamentals dooms it. Which is sad, as it has well-thought-out flavor.

Strongly agreed. Haven't played one, but I tried statting out one for various levels over the past week as backup chars.

I stopped after the third day. Lost all desire to actually play one. Damned shame. The flavor text is awesome.

hth
 

Kishin

First Post
Its main flaw seems to be the relatively low amount of Mysteries per day it can cast, and since they don't receive bonus Mysteries based on a high ability score, the only way to counter this is by learning Mysteries multiple times, thereby increasing the number of usages at the cost of decreasing your available palette of abilities.

I admittedly haven't had the chance to play one myself or otherwise witness a Shadowcaster in action, but I can't see it measuring up to an arcane or divine caster, which perhaps, is the point. Were I to make one, I think I'd strive to pick up the Noctumancer PrC for some added punch.

Its definitely a class that requires some mulling over, but as many have said already, the flavor is awesome.
 

WarlockLord

First Post
Laman Stahros said:
It isn't designed as a direct combat type. It uses a more tricksy style to defeat its enemies.


What kind of tricks would you recommend? It has stealth, but lacks the ability to dish it out from hiding. At low levels, one is heavily reliant upon the arrow of dusk fundamental (ranged touch, 2d4 nonlethal, but x3 crit. The mysteries at low level aren't good enough to justify their lack of uses. I am not sure if you can take the Extra Spell Feat (from complete arcane) to learn an extra mystery. That might help.

Another thing - there don't seem to be many good feats for an SC. Ideas?

If anyone has played this class, I urge you to post below. It would be appreiciated.
 

WarlockLord

First Post
Also, Ari, if you'vbe taken a look at this thread, could you tell us how the "iconic shadowcaster" you submitted to WoTC for playtesting was built (feats, mysteries, so on).
 

WarlockLord said:
Also, Ari, if you'vbe taken a look at this thread, could you tell us how the "iconic shadowcaster" you submitted to WoTC for playtesting was built (feats, mysteries, so on).

I've been watching, yes. :) I'm as curious as anyone to see what people think of the shadowcaster in play. While it's far from the only class I've ever designed, it is the only one I've designed to date that was intended to operate on a brand new system of magic and powers. If it's flawed, I want to know, so I can do better next time.

The playtest shadowcaster was a pre-development version of Irrin Corradran, as depicted on p. 116. I'm afraid that, between my own spotty memory and the fact that a lot of mysteries changed in development, telling you how I built her up originally wouldn't offer much insight.

I am happy to explain my reasoning--even if it turns out be flawed--for any of the design aspects of the shadowcaster itself. However, if you'll humor me a bit, I'd rather wait until the thread's gotten a few more replies before I do so. I'd really like to see what more people think of the shadowcaster, as written and in-play, before I start delving into the whys and wherefores. :)
 

Cadfan

First Post
I think the shadowcaster is fine, and I'm looking forwards to playing one soon.

My plan is, up to level 12,

Eyes of Shadow path
Shutters and Clouds path

Dark Reflections path
Bolster, Warp Spell, and Echo Spell.

Past level 12, I'll either go with Heart and Soul for coolness (path focus and greater path focus augmented), or Ebon Walls because it has both fort and will saves. I'll pick up Shadow Calling either way because it doesn't have saving throws, and I won't need path focus to power it up. My last few mysteries will either be for more castings of my best 9th level mysteries, or for more warp spells. I'm not sure yet.

For feats, I'll pick up Still Mystery, Shadow Reflections (book isn't with me, the 50% miss chance for attacks of opportunity), and Path Focus and Greater Path Focus for Dark Reflections. At level 13, I'll use my bonus feat for Favored Mystery: Shadow Evocation, Greater. I'm looking forwards to shadow evocation forcecages that ignore SR and have a 60% chance of working even if the target makes its save.

At low levels, the plan is to use my mysteries as per a normal caster, but with a backup plan of flanking and demoralizing with intimidate.

I personally think the power level is just fine. I think a lot of people feel it is weak because they devalue defensive options and overvalue offensive abilities. The shadowcasters defenses are great. So many mysteries give concealment or otherwise permit the use of hide checks, and since the Shadowcaster can wear armor (still mystery removes arcane spell failure), they can wear Shadowed Shadowsilk armor, meaning their hide checks will be well nigh unbeatable, giving them a sort of permanent invisibility.

I'm happy with the class and the system. I don't think its at the high end of the power curve, but I think its on there at a respectable point, and that it is worth playing.

------------

Editted to add:

There are a few things on my wish list as far as the Shadowcaster is concerned, and since Mouseferatu is here, I might as well say them.

Black Fire is reflex negates? That's sad, it makes it almost unusable at higher levels. Reflex Half would have been a better call, in my opinion.

Echo Spell is fun, but it would have been phenomenal if, instead of being limited to 4th level spells, it was limited to spells of, say, 2 levels lower than the highest level mystery you can cast. Then at higher levels it would still be useful in combat, instead of just for echoing your own cleric's healing and such.

I wish a lot of the lower level spells with "will negates" had partial effects on successful saves. Since you can't drop those mysteries in favor of other spells like a wizard would, you need to count on them being saved against quite frequently. A mystery like Killing Shadows is fine with will half even at high levels because you can easily maximize your apprentice mysteries at that point, and even with a save for half, its still 40 damage in an area of effect. Afraid of the Dark is similar. Shadow Vision, on the other hand, seems destined to fall into disuse at high levels, which is sad given how few mysteries you know. If instead of will negates it was will save for half penalty and partial concealment, it would be worth using. Its not such a big deal for higher level spells, but for lower level ones, this would be a nice change.

Final thought: the one change I'd make if I could only make one change, total, would be that if a mystery grows with caster level, but reaches a cap, Path Focus would increase that cap by one level. So a path focused Curtain of Shadows would max out at 16d6.

Really, this is nitpicking. Overall, I like Shadowmagic quite a lot. But what the heck, you're here, so I figured I'd tell you my thoughts.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

genshou

First Post
Experiences from play:

I played a grey elf shadowcaster with the dark template in a World's Largest Dungeon game. Coriantos was frighteningly good at vanishing into the shadows at will, but her ability to do much of anything else was effectively nil. She got a few uses out of Black Fire, but even cold resistance 5 makes that spell pretty ineffective. Her Arrow of Dusk was about the only way she could deal any damage, and after three of them she was done for the day. She got some use out of some of the other mysteries, but since I had her wearing shadow silk hide, she didn't need an armour bonus (otherwise Steel Shadows would have been a lot more useful for her to cast on herself rather than the thri-kreen), and she already had Hide in Plain Sight as a racial ability, so she didn't need the mystery that granted that.

I think the mysteries are powerful enough to match up with core spells, but the shadowcaster just doesn't get enough uses of them per day.

Ari, in the last thread about shadowcasters, didn't you say that the editors altered the class quite a bit from your original version?
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top