The shifter Prc is it worth it??

[Veldrane]

Have you played a shifter or is your opinion based on how the class looks on paper? Having both played and run a shifter, I find the opposite to be true. The shifter makes a great support character; he can sometimes fill in for rogue or fighter. But given (1) the limitation on forms from the DM and (2) the fact that his best attacks are "natural" and thus unaugmented by most magic items, shifters never quite equal fighters in combat (as well they shouldn't!).

Actually I played one, and with just a Scimitar +1, Ring of prot +1 and Mithral Breats Plate +1, a Shifter with the Troll or Annis form (most of the Shifter out there have at least the first one) can be equal to a fighter on a damage dealed base, have a higher AC (natural armor), and be both much harder to kill and automatically healed due to regeneration...

 

[Stalker0]

Actually I played one, and with just a Scimitar +1, Ring of prot +1 and Mithral Breats Plate +1, a Shifter with the Troll or Annis form (most of the Shifter out there have at least the first one) can be equal to a fighter on a damage dealed base, have a higher AC (natural armor), and be both much harder to kill and automatically healed due to regeneration...

I agree with Veldrane, while the shifter doesn't have the DR penatrating ability like a fighter may have, he can shift into forms that deal fire, acid, cold or anything elemental attack to do damage. Also, a lot of the forms have various poisons which are just nasty.

Phase spider poison (shivers)

 

[boothbey]

Just played in a game where there was a high level shifter. He loved great cleave, rage while running around as an animal growthed t-rex.

He seemed not to mind the spells he was missing out on. Heh

 

[wolff96]

Just played in a game where there was a high level shifter. He loved great cleave, rage while running around as an animal growthed t-rex.

Well...

1) A tyrranosaur is an 18HD creature. So he must have been at least 18th level. That dinosaur isn't THAT impressive at a level when the wizard can do Timestop or Shapechange. Not to mention that it would only take a pure class druid to start letting out Elemental Swarms... Tyrannosaurs don't get past damage reduction except through massive damage. Not to mention that they don't fly without further aid.

2) Animal Growth doesn't work on Tyrranosaurs. They are Beasts. The Animal Growth spell only works on ANIMALS.

3) Rage? He's a Barbarian/Druid/Shifter? Interesting combination, I have to admit...

 

[nharwell]

Also, animal growth wouldn't work regardless because the shifter's type doesn't change.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

.

3) Rage? He's a Barbarian/Druid/Shifter? Interesting combination, I have to admit...

That's how I'd do it, or maybe fighter/druid/shifter. I'd consider the druid levels the needed levels(and quickest way I know) to gain the shifter class and freely ignore the spellcasting ability. I'd rather loose 15 levels of spellcasting power and be a better fighter, than loose 10 and be a worse fighter.(though I might take 5 levels druid/10 shifter/2 fighter/3 rogue I like evasion and uncanny dodge, thoguh i suppose I could go really cheezy and end up with fighter2/ex-monk1/barb2)

 

[Stalker0]

That's how I'd do it, or maybe fighter/druid/shifter. I'd consider the druid levels the needed levels(and quickest way I know) to gain the shifter class and freely ignore the spellcasting ability. I'd rather loose 15 levels of spellcasting power and be a better fighter, than loose 10 and be a worse fighter.(though I might take 5 levels druid/10 shifter/2 fighter/3 rogue I like evasion and uncanny dodge, thoguh i suppose I could go really cheezy and end up with fighter2/ex-monk1/barb2)

Interesting question, would a barbarian shifter with DR 1/- shift into something that could now bypass any damage reduction with its natural weapons?

 

[Albert_Fish]

I am currently running an Epic Level Campaign wherein we have a 28th level Druid Shifter ( 18 levels of Druid, 10 levels of shifter)

it is a pick up game ( wherein we dont play the lower levels) so i allowed the player to assume any form that was related to ; Animals, Beasts, Vermin, plants, Elemental or any other creature below 15 hit dice regardless of Type. Well let me tell you something. A damn Frikking Iron Golem is a mess in an epic level Adventure. Immunity to nearly every spell, vorpal, sneak attacka nd Critical damage should not be sneezed at. Take a look at the Giant undead worm thingie. It can swallow enemies easily and then does damage as if it were a living creature with moving internal organs (gizzard) and a functioning digestive system ( acid).
The Shifter character is by far more powerful than the Cleric, The paladin with Dragon mount and the Fighter/Rogue Order of the bow initiate/master. he can take out the primary enemy inthe current adventure in probably 2 rounds....and the enemy is ofa CR ten levels higher than the party.

I think the shifter is severly broken...particularly if the PrC allows you to take teh form of things without an anatomy.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Interesting question, would a barbarian shifter with DR 1/- shift into something that could now bypass any damage reduction with its natural weapons?

well to get the DR on the barb you need to be fairly high level. And I'm not even sure the barb can puch through DR now, without shifing(faq, sage answer someplace?)

And on top of that whether or not the barb kept the DR when he shifted would probably depend on how the DR is defined, if its tough skin I'd say no it doesn't carry over to the shifted form, if it is I'm a crazy person/or some other mental/training based thing and can ignore some damage then I suppose it would shift over.

 

[Iku Rex]

According to the sage's "clarifications" you must have studied the creature for a day or fought it in combat

<shrug>

Like I said, it depends on the DM. Note that "complex interaction" is included as a possible way to gain familiarity. "Complex interaction" with someone paid (or persuaded) to teach you a new form should not be impossible.

True, the equipment choice is nice. But equipment alters to fit your form (if humanoid, giant, etc.) with Shapechange. Shapechange also gives you the "type" of the creature, and has no hit die cap.

True, but if you recall your claim was that Greater Wild Shape was made redundant by Shapechange.

Nowhere does it mention anything about any other immunity to fire. If a shifter in salamander form generates that much heat but doesn't have any fire resistance, how can he NOT take damage.

Nowhere does it mention that the salamander takes damage from it's own fire... You were the one who insisted on a literal interpretation. If you want to argue "common sense", then I think most people would agree that getting killed your own heat ability is not very sensible.

I have to disagree. Have you played a shifter or is your opinion based on how the class looks on paper?

I have played a shifter, yes. My DM instructed me to give a certain message to anyone who thought the shifter was underpowered, but I'm afraid it might not go over well with Morrus' grandmother.

I have also made (not played) "smackdown" type characters based on the class, and barring "buffed" spellcasters it is (IMO) the strongest class for a "melee monster". Especially when you include the MM2.

Having both played and run a shifter, I find the opposite to be true. The shifter makes a great support character; he can sometimes fill in for rogue or fighter. But given (1) the limitation on forms from the DM and (2) the fact that his best attacks are "natural" and thus unaugmented by most magic items, shifters never quite equal fighters in combat (as well they shouldn't!).

A shifter can wield a magic sword too...

And a shifter with druid levels (or a druid friend) can use Greater Magic Fang to beef up his natural weapons. Add a necklace of prayer beads: karma for a competitive bonus at higher levels. In S&F there is an amulet that gives all natural weapons an enhancement bonus.