The silver baton torch stub in T1

[Celebrim]

Upon rereading... I think wither of our readings are valid because I think Gygax used cresset when, I think, torch holder would be a better choice.

I think that if Gygax had meant a sconce, the word would have occurred to him. It's not entirely clear what he means here. One thing is clear to me though, it's not on the wall. I read it as lying on the floor near the wall.

It's not on the wall, or he would have said 'on the wall', rather than 'near the outer wall'. And he wouldn't have had to call it a 'wall cresset'. Likewise, it's not a free standing item for the same reason, and because Gygax would have used brazier (because he uses them all over the place elsewhere) if it was free standing.

There is a torch holder on wall. Instead of holding a burnt torch, it contains a (presumably slightly tarnished) silver baton.

I agree that it appears that the baton is a torch stub, and not the torch holder as I first assumed. I also agree that this is a wierd way to try to hide the treasure, as their is no explaination for how it got there or why it would have been missed. A peice of burnt torch looks nothing like a peice of corroded silver, nor does it feel or sound like one. As such, if that's the intended meaning, it is only minimally hid. Anyone investigating the Cresset pretty much automatically finds it.

I still feel my handling of the room is superb.

 

[Krensky]

Ah, the much lauded Gygaxian Prose.

How I haven't missed it.

I think we can all agree on the following interpertation:

There is a primitive illumination device of some sort in the room. Inside it, instead of whatever it's supposed to have held is a stick made of silver. The silver thing is worth 30GP.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

You must spread some XP around.......

I think Celebrim summed the whole thing up very well.

As long as the playing group refers to any exploration of the game world environment outside the scope of a die roll as pixel bitching they will just never get it.

Darn, I can't give him any either. That has to be the best description of how EGG saw making D&D adventures in the early days I've ever heard of, let alone seen.

 

[howandwhy99]

There is no visual clue about valuables being in either room. Maybe they want mangy pelts? Maybe they see some value in them? Those are readily seen and grasped. However, if players choose to search, then they could find the silver baton. Searching requires a certain number of Turns depending upon the size of the room. They can search as long as they wish even after finding the silver baton. However, it will take at least the minimum Turns required to search the entire room for every check unless they further define the area they are searching (not just "the room"). For every additional PC checking that other player gets to make a roll for spending their time searching. Those not searching are either spending their Turns doing something else or wasting them.

I should mention the animal parts in the first room may also indicate the type of wildlife in the area, though they may not depending upon their origins. Ditto on the destroyed furnishings of the second room.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I notice a lot of people mentioning search checks and the like. May I remind everyone that for the edition the module was written for there were no such rules. Saying "I search the room." Might net you the baton, or it might not, depending on the GM. You might have to be very specific about what you were seaching, and how.

 

[Lanefan]

aside

when I jumped to page 2 of this thread, the banner ad at the top was for backyard torches!

/aside

Lan-"but did they include cressets?"-efan

 

[FireLance]

All the preceding language-related confusion reminds me why I never put grassy knolls or gazebos in any of my adventures.

Personally, I find myself wondering what (possibly contrived? ) series of improbable events caused a baton of silver to be inserted into a sconce (or whatever) in the first place.

 

[Tistur]

in room 14 there are hidden treasures listed too.

some players would be scoping the trophies for ingredients for spell components.

or to learn about flora and fauna of the area if they aren't residents of hommlet.

Or take the broken teeth and antlers for later use as wedges for doors & traps, testing implements (how far down is that water? Drop a tooth down and see), ornaments, anything invovling whole animal heads, etc.

Really, I think the term treasure is misleading. When Gygax says "nothing of value", he means GP, which translates to XP. Ignoring the whole room could be a shameful waste.*

*Yes, they are in a stronghold with many, many other such random items laying about. But the dismissal of the entire room is a mistake, or would be in many games I have played in.

 

[howandwhy99]

I notice a lot of people mentioning search checks and the like. May I remind everyone that for the edition the module was written for there were no such rules. Saying "I search the room." Might net you the baton, or it might not, depending on the GM. You might have to be very specific about what you were seaching, and how.

I don't recall where search checks came from, but I think they are a nice addition to the game. They are supplementary rather than a replacement. It is certainly still possible to go through the room descriptively to find treasure, but some folks don't like this. The pixel-argument and all that. I partake in it at times as I don't always know when a rule may come into effect. So describing how I search and where still matters.

Think of players saying "I search the whole house". One roll is all that is needed, but time spent on every roll is going to be considerable. A Ref may also use increasing percentage for large numbers of hidden items too, so you can never be sure. For example, if the standard is a 1-2 in 6 chance, then a 1 and 2 may reward 100 or 50% of items respectively. Or you could be more discriminating and waste less time, but not search everything. Plus, if there are dangers within a Ref will ask for further specifics until he or she receives the order of actions needed.

 

[Jasperak]

I find it interesting that T1-4 has a slightly different but more clear description for that room.

15. Domicile
This place was the domicile of the major-domo of the castle but is now stripped of everything save broken and ruined furnishings. One wall cresset remains near the outer wall, and its nondescript torch stub is a silver baton worth 30 gp.

Compared to the original in T1:

15. Empty Room: The place was the domicile of the major-domo of the castle but it is stripped of everything save broken and ruined furnishings now. One wall cresset remains near the outer wall, and its torch stub is actually a silver baton worth 30 g.p. in its present condition.

In both cases I would read it as a torch stub and an enterprising party would have to spend the time to search and risk a wandering monster check to find the true value of the "torch stub." I would also consider the baton hidden because in both cases it is masquerading as a torch stub explicitly ("nondescript torch stub") in the T1-4 description and implicitly ("the torch stub is actually a") in the T1 description.