Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Size of Books
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6043805" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>I know how you feel. I don't really care for reading electronic materials, and am extremely wary of buying eBooks and the like. Indeed, I've never bought such a thing. And I do rather like my 3.5e library.</p><p></p><p>But...</p><p></p><p>The reality is that that library is a real PitA. Even the most flavourful of the books in there has been read exactly once, and is highly unlikely to ever be read again. The only things I reference are things like spells, magic items, and monsters. But with the material spread across dozens of books and hundreds of Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and with no unified index, finding things is a pain. The net effect is that the overwhelming majority doesn't get used, will never get used, and won't even be <em>considered</em> for use, simply because I can't lay my hands on it. That's really not efficient in any sense.</p><p></p><p>(And that's only the problem if I'm hosting the game. If I have to lug all that stuff to someone else's house to play... yeah, I'm not doing that.)</p><p></p><p>What I would dearly love would be for WotC to do an "encyclopedia version" of the game - reprint everything as-is, but reorganised by topic (a book with all the classes, some books with all the monsters listed in strict alphabetical order, etc). If they did that, I would rebuy everything, even at a cost of $1,000. (But they would need to guarantee it would never be added to, modified, or even heavily errata-ed. It really would need to be a definitive reference.)</p><p></p><p>But even <em>that</em> would be less good than an 'encyclopedia' I could search automatically, I could select and organise as I needed... basically, an 3e version of the DDI Compendium would be a godsend. I would subscribe to DDI sight-unseen just for that. (And that's without even getting into a Character Builder, a Monster Builder, a character management app, and other possible tools.)</p><p></p><p>Plus, do it electronically and they don't need to promise it will never be expanded - it's trivial to add 'pages' into the middle of an electronic encyclopedia in a way that it just isn't with a hard-copy version. (The failed 2nd Ed Monstrous Compendium notwithstanding.)</p><p></p><p>The truth is that while physical books look better, and while they're better for reading, electronic versions are just better for <em>everything</em> else. And they're cheaper to produce and maintain, they can be tied to a subscription for an ongoing revenue stream, and they allow the DDI offering to increase in value as the edition goes on.</p><p></p><p>(And paper is worse than that, too. In 3e, the biggest selling items outside of the core rulebooks were almost certainly the splatbooks. And people didn't really buy "Complete Warrior" for the advice on playing fighters, or whatever - they bought them for the new classes, prestige classes, magic items, etc; the stuff to add to their character. With 4e, though, all that material was automatically available through DDI. Producing the electronic version almost certainly canibalised sales of their biggest-selling supplements, and did so to quite a large extent. Indeed, that's probably a factor in the 'failure' of 4e - enough people used DDI instead of the books that the books didn't really succeed, but not quite enough subscribed to DDI to make that a success in itself. In effect, they competed with themselves and turned one success into two failures.)</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, going back to my "if I were in charge at WotC" thesis, I think I might well be inclined to get rid of the e-magazines as such, in favour of an ever-expanding library of articles (all extensively cross-referenced, tagged, and hyperlinked, of course), with new content being produced on a regular schedule. But the key thing I would be inclined to do would be to offer all (seriously, 100%) of the non-setting-specific* 'fluff' material for free download... but keep the 'crunch' material blocked off behind the paywall. That way, the fluff acts as an advertisement for the contents, but all the bits that people (esp. players) <em>really</em> want - the new monsters, the powers for their characters, etc - are held back.</p><p></p><p>And sure, that means that if you're interested but not actually playing D&D at present, you get access to an enormous amount of material for free. But it means that as soon as anyone <em>is</em> playing, they will want to subscribe and they will want to maintain a subscription throughout. That <em>should</em> be enough to sustain the service (frankly, it really needs to!).</p><p></p><p>As I said previously, under this model I wouldn't eliminate printed support entirely. But it would come after the electronic version (and after the errata had been applied), and would consist of reprints of that material. And given that the print runs would necessarily be small, it would be priced at a premium as well.</p><p></p><p>* The settings, of course, would remain behind the paywall. If you want to know about Eberron, you have to pay for it somehow!</p><p></p><p>(And just in case it isn't obvious: all of this is IMO, of course!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 6043805, member: 22424"] I know how you feel. I don't really care for reading electronic materials, and am extremely wary of buying eBooks and the like. Indeed, I've never bought such a thing. And I do rather like my 3.5e library. But... The reality is that that library is a real PitA. Even the most flavourful of the books in there has been read exactly once, and is highly unlikely to ever be read again. The only things I reference are things like spells, magic items, and monsters. But with the material spread across dozens of books and hundreds of Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and with no unified index, finding things is a pain. The net effect is that the overwhelming majority doesn't get used, will never get used, and won't even be [i]considered[/i] for use, simply because I can't lay my hands on it. That's really not efficient in any sense. (And that's only the problem if I'm hosting the game. If I have to lug all that stuff to someone else's house to play... yeah, I'm not doing that.) What I would dearly love would be for WotC to do an "encyclopedia version" of the game - reprint everything as-is, but reorganised by topic (a book with all the classes, some books with all the monsters listed in strict alphabetical order, etc). If they did that, I would rebuy everything, even at a cost of $1,000. (But they would need to guarantee it would never be added to, modified, or even heavily errata-ed. It really would need to be a definitive reference.) But even [i]that[/i] would be less good than an 'encyclopedia' I could search automatically, I could select and organise as I needed... basically, an 3e version of the DDI Compendium would be a godsend. I would subscribe to DDI sight-unseen just for that. (And that's without even getting into a Character Builder, a Monster Builder, a character management app, and other possible tools.) Plus, do it electronically and they don't need to promise it will never be expanded - it's trivial to add 'pages' into the middle of an electronic encyclopedia in a way that it just isn't with a hard-copy version. (The failed 2nd Ed Monstrous Compendium notwithstanding.) The truth is that while physical books look better, and while they're better for reading, electronic versions are just better for [i]everything[/i] else. And they're cheaper to produce and maintain, they can be tied to a subscription for an ongoing revenue stream, and they allow the DDI offering to increase in value as the edition goes on. (And paper is worse than that, too. In 3e, the biggest selling items outside of the core rulebooks were almost certainly the splatbooks. And people didn't really buy "Complete Warrior" for the advice on playing fighters, or whatever - they bought them for the new classes, prestige classes, magic items, etc; the stuff to add to their character. With 4e, though, all that material was automatically available through DDI. Producing the electronic version almost certainly canibalised sales of their biggest-selling supplements, and did so to quite a large extent. Indeed, that's probably a factor in the 'failure' of 4e - enough people used DDI instead of the books that the books didn't really succeed, but not quite enough subscribed to DDI to make that a success in itself. In effect, they competed with themselves and turned one success into two failures.) Incidentally, going back to my "if I were in charge at WotC" thesis, I think I might well be inclined to get rid of the e-magazines as such, in favour of an ever-expanding library of articles (all extensively cross-referenced, tagged, and hyperlinked, of course), with new content being produced on a regular schedule. But the key thing I would be inclined to do would be to offer all (seriously, 100%) of the non-setting-specific* 'fluff' material for free download... but keep the 'crunch' material blocked off behind the paywall. That way, the fluff acts as an advertisement for the contents, but all the bits that people (esp. players) [i]really[/i] want - the new monsters, the powers for their characters, etc - are held back. And sure, that means that if you're interested but not actually playing D&D at present, you get access to an enormous amount of material for free. But it means that as soon as anyone [i]is[/i] playing, they will want to subscribe and they will want to maintain a subscription throughout. That [i]should[/i] be enough to sustain the service (frankly, it really needs to!). As I said previously, under this model I wouldn't eliminate printed support entirely. But it would come after the electronic version (and after the errata had been applied), and would consist of reprints of that material. And given that the print runs would necessarily be small, it would be priced at a premium as well. * The settings, of course, would remain behind the paywall. If you want to know about Eberron, you have to pay for it somehow! (And just in case it isn't obvious: all of this is IMO, of course!) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Size of Books
Top