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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Slow Death of Epic Tier
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<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5385983" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Interesting discussion, some very good points raised by Aegeri.</p><p></p><p>To respond to the main points raised in the initial article:</p><p></p><p>1. The damages were all wrong for Epic until MM3/MV...<strong>SOLVED</strong> (by WotC).</p><p></p><p>2. DMing Epic requires a bit more forethought...<strong>UNDERSTOOD</strong>; but a DMG3 (with a focus on epic play) still would have been nice.</p><p></p><p>3. Lack of Epic Fluff...<strong>UNDERSTOOD</strong>. One possible problem with an epic tier campaign is the propensity for changes to the campaign world are something DM's might not want to address. The DM might have put a lot of effort into creating a given city and its NPC's. But in an epic campaign, cities; countries and even worlds can, and probably will, get destroyed. DMs need to embrace this possibility. My suggestion would be to have multiple campaign worlds running concurrently (or at least visited), so you probably want a fast and loose approach. This seems why most epic campaigns take to the planes...basically for fear of breaking the world. </p><p></p><p>4. Solo Monster design still a problem...<strong>SOLVED</strong> (by me in my new book the <strong>Vampire Bestiary</strong> - which is about 5 weeks away from release...yes shameless plug). But monster design overall has been getting better from WotC.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://eternitypublishing.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/vampire-bestiary/" target="_blank">Preview: Vampire Bestiary « Eternity Publishing</a></p><p></p><p>5. Epic Material very sparse...<strong>UNDERSTOOD</strong> (I'm working on several epic projects; the first of which, following the Vampire Bestiary release, is an adventure trilogy under the umbrella title of Against the Reptile God...Part 1 is called <strong>The Serpent Riders</strong>. A Delve style adventure for Levels 25-28. It has 4 delves and all new, all epic monsters.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://eternitypublishing.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/against-the-reptile-god/" target="_blank">Preview: Against the Reptile God « Eternity Publishing</a></p><p></p><p>5b. Genericism of Epic Campaigns...<strong>UNDERSTOOD</strong>. The main constraint to epic campaigns are the lack of epic foes. If you want to have a big campaign threat its almost certainly got to be demonic in nature, because no other faction or race has enough variety of epic opponents to actually sustain anything more than a Delve, let alone a full adventure or lengthy campaign. I am working on an epic tier (and immortal tier) monster book that vastly expands <strong>Angels & Devils</strong> (also incorporating fallen angels, lots of new abominations and so forth). It should have enough options to build a feasible alternative to demons at the epic tier.</p><p></p><p>6. More of the same simply with bigger numbers...<strong>SOLVED</strong>. I have long pondered what does, or what would, make Epic gaming unique. I have a few solutions I'll be incorporating into future books.</p><p></p><p>- Armies: Epic campaigns should involve great battles, either between armies; or between powerful characters and armies. I have developed some very simple rules for this.</p><p></p><p>- Super-bosses: We all know that the Tarrasque is the poor man's Godzilla. But how can the rules cover monsters that are as big as a castle, big as a city, big as a planet, big as a universe even...!?!? Well, now you can, because I've got some simple rules for them that will blow your cotton socks off!</p><p></p><p>- Legendary Abilities: Having the strength of Hercules; the speed of Hermes or the wisdom of Athena should mean something other than a better to hit bonus...right? Soon you'll be able to impress your friends with reality bending Legendary Ability Scores...and yeah, monsters can get them too. </p><p></p><p><strong>I'd be very curious to hear what epic gamers are looking for specifically: Adventures? Monsters? New Rules? All of the Above?</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 5385983, member: 326"] Interesting discussion, some very good points raised by Aegeri. To respond to the main points raised in the initial article: 1. The damages were all wrong for Epic until MM3/MV...[B]SOLVED[/B] (by WotC). 2. DMing Epic requires a bit more forethought...[B]UNDERSTOOD[/B]; but a DMG3 (with a focus on epic play) still would have been nice. 3. Lack of Epic Fluff...[B]UNDERSTOOD[/B]. One possible problem with an epic tier campaign is the propensity for changes to the campaign world are something DM's might not want to address. The DM might have put a lot of effort into creating a given city and its NPC's. But in an epic campaign, cities; countries and even worlds can, and probably will, get destroyed. DMs need to embrace this possibility. My suggestion would be to have multiple campaign worlds running concurrently (or at least visited), so you probably want a fast and loose approach. This seems why most epic campaigns take to the planes...basically for fear of breaking the world. 4. Solo Monster design still a problem...[B]SOLVED[/B] (by me in my new book the [B]Vampire Bestiary[/B] - which is about 5 weeks away from release...yes shameless plug). But monster design overall has been getting better from WotC. [url=http://eternitypublishing.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/vampire-bestiary/]Preview: Vampire Bestiary « Eternity Publishing[/url] 5. Epic Material very sparse...[B]UNDERSTOOD[/B] (I'm working on several epic projects; the first of which, following the Vampire Bestiary release, is an adventure trilogy under the umbrella title of Against the Reptile God...Part 1 is called [B]The Serpent Riders[/B]. A Delve style adventure for Levels 25-28. It has 4 delves and all new, all epic monsters. [url=http://eternitypublishing.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/against-the-reptile-god/]Preview: Against the Reptile God « Eternity Publishing[/url] 5b. Genericism of Epic Campaigns...[B]UNDERSTOOD[/B]. The main constraint to epic campaigns are the lack of epic foes. If you want to have a big campaign threat its almost certainly got to be demonic in nature, because no other faction or race has enough variety of epic opponents to actually sustain anything more than a Delve, let alone a full adventure or lengthy campaign. I am working on an epic tier (and immortal tier) monster book that vastly expands [B]Angels & Devils[/B] (also incorporating fallen angels, lots of new abominations and so forth). It should have enough options to build a feasible alternative to demons at the epic tier. 6. More of the same simply with bigger numbers...[B]SOLVED[/B]. I have long pondered what does, or what would, make Epic gaming unique. I have a few solutions I'll be incorporating into future books. - Armies: Epic campaigns should involve great battles, either between armies; or between powerful characters and armies. I have developed some very simple rules for this. - Super-bosses: We all know that the Tarrasque is the poor man's Godzilla. But how can the rules cover monsters that are as big as a castle, big as a city, big as a planet, big as a universe even...!?!? Well, now you can, because I've got some simple rules for them that will blow your cotton socks off! - Legendary Abilities: Having the strength of Hercules; the speed of Hermes or the wisdom of Athena should mean something other than a better to hit bonus...right? Soon you'll be able to impress your friends with reality bending Legendary Ability Scores...and yeah, monsters can get them too. [B]I'd be very curious to hear what epic gamers are looking for specifically: Adventures? Monsters? New Rules? All of the Above?[/B] [/QUOTE]
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