Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Slow Death of Epic Tier
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5387381" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Hello again Prestidigitalis! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Always happy to chime in on the subject. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In a nutshell, I think 4E is better in virtually every way (with the notable exception of the GSL vs. OGL).</p><p></p><p>1. <strong>Monster Design</strong>: Its far better for monster design, because it really cuts down on all the irrelevant stuff like feats, spell-like abilities, skills (for the most part). The different Ranks and Roles are fantastic play aides. Monsters also no longer need magic items to 'keep up' since the math is all integrated. You really can just boil them down to their own unique abilities.</p><p></p><p><em>If I had one minor quibble</em>, I'd say I regret Templates are no longer as relevant in 4E. But I think that if you swop out Rank for Level* in some occasions they could come back in vogue.</p><p></p><p>*ie. Instead of making a standard monster elite, just make it 4 levels higher.</p><p></p><p>2. <strong>Character Design</strong>: Multi-classing is now far better. Integrating Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies into the core levelling structure was great - forcing players to make choices, rather than just take as many different classes and Prestige Classes tas hey wanted. </p><p></p><p><em>The minor quibble</em> from the beginning of 4E has been that all the classes are too mechanically similar, I think thats a valid point but something that has really been addressed with more recent books like PHB3 and so forth.</p><p></p><p>3. <strong>Artifacts</strong>: The new rules distinguishing Artifacts and other Magic Items are really very good.</p><p></p><p>4. <strong>Balance</strong>: Overall its much better balanced. Far easier to set-up encounters. You get the occasional loophole that can be abused but nothing that intrinsic to the game.</p><p></p><p><em>The minor quibble here</em> is with powers that give a bonus equal to an ability score modifier - those need to be clamped down upon at epic levels.</p><p></p><p>5. <strong>Support</strong>: Even though support for Epic 4E is about as likely as Epic 3E, its actually much easier to cater to Epic 4E for a number of reasons:</p><p></p><p>5a: In 4E, Epic is core.</p><p>5b: In 4E, Epic is much simpler.</p><p>5c: In 4E, Epic is capped...for instance if I have about 100 monsters in an Epic 3E book (which I basically did) they could be anywhere from Challenge Rating 21 to Challenge Rating 9721*. Whereas in 4E, we know to keep the monsters between 21-36 (or thereabouts). It means much less effort going to waste.</p><p></p><p>* <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 5387381, member: 326"] Hello again Prestidigitalis! :) Always happy to chime in on the subject. ;) In a nutshell, I think 4E is better in virtually every way (with the notable exception of the GSL vs. OGL). 1. [B]Monster Design[/B]: Its far better for monster design, because it really cuts down on all the irrelevant stuff like feats, spell-like abilities, skills (for the most part). The different Ranks and Roles are fantastic play aides. Monsters also no longer need magic items to 'keep up' since the math is all integrated. You really can just boil them down to their own unique abilities. [I]If I had one minor quibble[/I], I'd say I regret Templates are no longer as relevant in 4E. But I think that if you swop out Rank for Level* in some occasions they could come back in vogue. *ie. Instead of making a standard monster elite, just make it 4 levels higher. 2. [B]Character Design[/B]: Multi-classing is now far better. Integrating Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies into the core levelling structure was great - forcing players to make choices, rather than just take as many different classes and Prestige Classes tas hey wanted. [I]The minor quibble[/I] from the beginning of 4E has been that all the classes are too mechanically similar, I think thats a valid point but something that has really been addressed with more recent books like PHB3 and so forth. 3. [B]Artifacts[/B]: The new rules distinguishing Artifacts and other Magic Items are really very good. 4. [B]Balance[/B]: Overall its much better balanced. Far easier to set-up encounters. You get the occasional loophole that can be abused but nothing that intrinsic to the game. [I]The minor quibble here[/I] is with powers that give a bonus equal to an ability score modifier - those need to be clamped down upon at epic levels. 5. [B]Support[/B]: Even though support for Epic 4E is about as likely as Epic 3E, its actually much easier to cater to Epic 4E for a number of reasons: 5a: In 4E, Epic is core. 5b: In 4E, Epic is much simpler. 5c: In 4E, Epic is capped...for instance if I have about 100 monsters in an Epic 3E book (which I basically did) they could be anywhere from Challenge Rating 21 to Challenge Rating 9721*. Whereas in 4E, we know to keep the monsters between 21-36 (or thereabouts). It means much less effort going to waste. * ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Slow Death of Epic Tier
Top