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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5393555" data-attributes="member: 87792">Care to justify how 4e has more pronounced scaling than 3e?  My check of the numbers really doesn't justify this.Hit points: A 4th edition character gains between 4 and 7 hp per level I think.  (I can't remember if Wardens are 7 or 8).  A 3rd edition character gains between d4+con and d12+con.  Given that a high level wizard will have a +6 enhancement bonus to con - and is likely to have a con of 12 or higher (including tomes) on point buy, that's a low average of 6.5 hp per level.  Despite a far lower starting hp, the wizard is actually gaining more hit points every level than almost every 4e class.  (If anything I'd say 4e scaling is closer to AD&D name level scaling).  Fighters meanwhile are gaining even more hit points every level. For further wizard comparison, if a 4e wizard is bumping wisdom as his secondary stat with stat bumps (or just not con) then a 4e wizard gains 118 hit points over 29 levels, giving him a final hp total of 140 at level 30 if he had 22 hit points at level 1.  A 3e wizard with a starting con of 12 has 5hp.  At 20th level he has 51.5 hp from the dice.  And assuming a +6 enhancement bonus and a +2 tome he gains 100hp from statics so just over 150 hit points.  In 20 levels our 3e wizard overtook the level 30 wizard in terms of hit points despite having started with fewer than a quarter of his total. To hit.  On average a 4e PC gains +1 to hit every level.  In 20 levels, a 3e Fighter gains +20 to hit.  +5 (Magic sword +5) +3 (Belt of giant strength +6) + 2 (at least extra points in Str from level increases).  And we're already at +30 in 20 levels before we've even thought about buffs or feats.  Rogues are up to +25 in 20 levels by the same token.  (More normally - they can't take Weapon Finesse until level 3). In fact, just about every measure of offence and utility scales significantly faster in 3e than 4e.  And spellcasters fastest of all.  What doesn't scale so well are defences other than hit points.  Which is why high level 3e combat is over in a couple of very involved rounds. And this is confirmed by the xp math.  2 levels to double xp for 3e, 4 for 4e.</blockquote>

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