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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Slow Death of Epic Tier
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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5393781" data-attributes="member: 58197"><p>PCs gain levels to give a sense of progress to the players and avert boredom. Simple numeric inflation (attacks, defenses, hit points, damage) is only one component of that progress, and not a very big one. You could get rid of the numeric inflation entirely, and the power curve would become close to flat, but players would still have a sense of progress as they gained new feats and powers.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. Heroic-level supplicants. Maybe paragon. But epic?</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>And that's a grand total of maybe four encounters. What do we do for the rest of epic tier?</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>And to the best of my knowledge, none of them commands armies of epic-level creatures, or even high-paragon-level creatures that could be minionized. I'm not real familiar with what Lex Luthor's got on hand, but Galactus by all accounts is a single solo, and the only servants Sauron has that seem potentially epic-level are the Nazgul. (And that's being pretty generous to the Nazgul; they look more like mid-paragon to me.)</p><p></p><p>Remember, we're not talking about <em>one</em> epic foe. That's easy enough to work into a campaign. And it's not too hard to stretch that out into 3, 4, maybe 5 combats by giving the epic foe some epic henchmen and elite guards. All this I readily concede.</p><p></p><p>But we're talking about an <em>entire tier's worth of combat</em>. 10 levels--25 sessions or so. Even if you have only one combat a session, that's 25 battles, and if you follow a more typical pattern for D&D, it'll be more like 50. Just how many elite guards and epic henchmen do these guys have?</p><p></p><p>Now consider that if the heroes battle those 25-50 gangs of epic foes, there are presumably a lot more of them that the PCs never fight. It's ludicrous to suppose that the heroes would fight their way through <em>all</em> of the villain's elite forces in a series of small groups. If the villain's forces are sufficiently spread out that the PCs have to engage in 25-50 separate combats, then it logically follows that there must be hundreds of groups out there that the PCs bypass on the way to their objective.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 5393781, member: 58197"] PCs gain levels to give a sense of progress to the players and avert boredom. Simple numeric inflation (attacks, defenses, hit points, damage) is only one component of that progress, and not a very big one. You could get rid of the numeric inflation entirely, and the power curve would become close to flat, but players would still have a sense of progress as they gained new feats and powers. Sure. Heroic-level supplicants. Maybe paragon. But epic? And that's a grand total of maybe four encounters. What do we do for the rest of epic tier? And to the best of my knowledge, none of them commands armies of epic-level creatures, or even high-paragon-level creatures that could be minionized. I'm not real familiar with what Lex Luthor's got on hand, but Galactus by all accounts is a single solo, and the only servants Sauron has that seem potentially epic-level are the Nazgul. (And that's being pretty generous to the Nazgul; they look more like mid-paragon to me.) Remember, we're not talking about [i]one[/i] epic foe. That's easy enough to work into a campaign. And it's not too hard to stretch that out into 3, 4, maybe 5 combats by giving the epic foe some epic henchmen and elite guards. All this I readily concede. But we're talking about an [i]entire tier's worth of combat[/i]. 10 levels--25 sessions or so. Even if you have only one combat a session, that's 25 battles, and if you follow a more typical pattern for D&D, it'll be more like 50. Just how many elite guards and epic henchmen do these guys have? Now consider that if the heroes battle those 25-50 gangs of epic foes, there are presumably a lot more of them that the PCs never fight. It's ludicrous to suppose that the heroes would fight their way through [i]all[/i] of the villain's elite forces in a series of small groups. If the villain's forces are sufficiently spread out that the PCs have to engage in 25-50 separate combats, then it logically follows that there must be hundreds of groups out there that the PCs bypass on the way to their objective. [/QUOTE]
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The Slow Death of Epic Tier
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