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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 5393804">No, the power curve would not be flat.  It would just be a power curve based on powers, instead of a power curve based on inherent stats or gear. If a 10th level Wizard has 30 spells, and a first level wizard has 3, then that 10th level wizard is going to have exponentially more powerful spells.  Why?  Because basic game design says he must, otherwise there is no point in going that far.  From an RP perspective, why should a wizard spend years studying new spells....if he's only going to be a tiny bit more powerful than a wizard who has studied 3 spells. Even if we remove the number of spells, SOMETHING has to show that your character is progressing in terms of personal power improvment.  Either they learn new tricks, or improve the ones they have.  If you don't do this, the very basics of levels are destroyed.  There's no point to levels if there isn't enough of a power curve to so that a higher-level character is worth the investment.  Again, reference the Darth Vader/Emperor duo.  Both the Emperor and Vader are certainly Epic, and Boba Fett probably is too, if only slightly lesser.  in level terms, the Emperor would be 30+, vader would be the high 20's, and Fett would be mid 20's.    How many times did Luke and co run into Vader before defeating him?  Once or twice a movie?  Who says fighting the villain has to end with defeating them?  They are epic because they have survived all the would-be adventurers before you. This is a problem IMO, that Heroic tier generated.  Heroic teir pits your adventurers against idiots, against mindless animals.  Creatures that fight first, and think later.  Epic tier is the reverse, it pits your heros against vastly intelligent creatures that think first and fight second.  Creatures that will ignore marks in favor of killing weakened foes.  Creatures that will ignore "favored enemies" over whoever looks the most tasty.  Creatures that are immune to the taunts and catcalls of your heroes.  And finally Villains who push the big red button first, before telling you their plan, and don't build their doomsday device with an "off" switch.  Heroic and early Paragon get your players, and DMs into the mindset that foes are foolhardy and careless.  Epic tier should catch everyone by surprise because not a single foe in Epic should be even slightly foolish. Luthor had a variety of hero cloning programs, he was well invested with CADMUS and Star Labs.  He often hired other heroes or villians to protect him.  It's a game, they exist ONLY to challenge your heroes.  Yes, I get that a lot of people want to go for this thing known as "realism", but lets face it, you need some hardy suspension of disbelief to get these things to function. So you do other things that get the players to level up, I get that 4E is combat heavy, but the leveling experience need not revolve around combat alone.  Heck, there were 9 Nazgul, most of whom only died because Sauron was destroyed, only one of which was actually killed, and it took two heroes(with combat advantage! and a prophecy!(the Witch King had that whole Macbeth "no man can kill me" thing)).  And he probably would have won if he hadn't gone to play with Theoden.  Assuming 50 sessions, each "battle" taking 2 sessions we end up with 25 unique combats.  Breaking that down by 5 unique "epic henchmen" means we're looking at 5 battles per foe.  Four if you include the top-guy as one of them, then we're looking at 4 seperate epic villain-henchmen, each with their own little entourage of a half a dozen high-paragon minions, whom each have their own little personal collection of high-heroic minions.   in the words of some rap star: Break it down1 Villain, high Epic+(lvl30 elite solo and with a cheery on top)4-5 Subordinate villains, low-to-high epic.(lvl 25-30 elites)4-5 per above, Sub-villain hencies, high paragon5-10 per above sub-hencies minions, low paragon, high heroic. Each epic combat would take place over 4-5 sessions.First you would encounter one, or two of the sub-villain hencies, with 5-10 of their lackies, this combat is a two-nighter.Next time, you would encounter the sub-villain, all his remaining 2-3 hencies, and all their 5-10 high heroic, low-paragon minions. First battle would be something along the lines of 15-30 foes, two or 3 of which could easily hold their own against your party. Second battle would be similar, with the addition of the subordinate villain, who would hold back until most of the lackie minions are downed. Repeat this for as many subordinate villains as you want, each sub-villain more powerful than the last. Personally, I think that would easily last me 25-50 sessions.</blockquote>

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