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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 5393880">Possibly, but the reason those Epic villains are Epic is because they're the ones who were smart during Heroic. Yes, in every group of bandits there's the cunning one or two. These are the ones who go on to Paragon to become bandit lords. Of those bandit lords, a few of them are more cunning than the rest, and they are the ones who make pacts with demons, devils, or gods for the kind of power that will carry them off into Epic. Heroic "smart" bandits know getting behind you makes them dangerous. Epic "smart" villains know that getting behind you, immoblizing you, lowering your defenses, and mind-controlling you makes you AND your party dead.  No, it may not, but we'll never know unless we try, there's too much "lets just not do it at all 'cause we think it'll be dumb" going on in this thread.  I agree. Every "boss" battle should be potent and challenging, at their level. But they are, as you say, a crime boss. Which is a different scale entirely from guys like The Kingpin. Crime boss? More like Crime Lord. I'm not arguing ALL the cool stuff has to happen in Epic tier. I'm just saying that applying the same theories "dialed up" is really all it takes.   Partially, I think that's because Champions sat down and said "look guys, we know how this works, lets roll with it." and did their best to mimic the flavor of a villain who challenges you every step of the way, grows as you grow. Yes, D&D "achievements" center around how many "bosses" you've downed, just as almost every Fantasy RPG does. But that doesn't mean your game in particular has to revolve around that theme. Personally, this is just a matter of getting it into your player's head that "reputation" comes from more than just your kill count. Much like the Epic Destiny Quest, you are not widely known for how many heads you mount on your wall, but perhaps, how many lives you've saved. Only a handful of those lives were saved from the grasp of your foes, most of whom you saved from trees or burning buildings.  Or maybe you're well known for how many homeless shelters you've built.</blockquote>

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