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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Motorskills" data-source="post: 5711076" data-attributes="member: 15921">I'm new to 4e, but not new to D&D.I have to say I'm a little surprised by this conversation. I know there was some politics involved, but WOTC presumably still owns the rights to the concepts developed in BECMI.Whilst the implementation was a little shaky, the idea of two tiers above 'simple adventurers' was well-established via the Companion and Master boxed sets (and later in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set).D&D went from L1 to L36, which is essentially compatible with the 4e L1 to L30At Companion level (L15-L25), the idea was that you and your merry band of entrepreneurs could be done with making a living killing monsters for their stuff. The campaign documentation supported developing domains, fighting wars and sieges and so on. Of course there would still be plenty for high-level PCs to do that employed all their dubious talents on a regional or even global basis.At Master level, (L26 to L36) you were essentially done even with that, and would be on the hunt for one of the four PC Paths to Immortality. That would involve world-spanning, and planar-spanning, fun-and-games.Pretty clever stuff really. IIRC, first You needed to find an Artifact (an Immortal-level magic item that was specifically 'buried' somewhere by your Immortal patron, for you to quest to find.) Then you would need to either i) create a Dynasty, and time-travel to help your descendants out three times over the next 1000 years, per the prophecy that you yourself created(!)ii) change the landscape for 100(?) miles around. I mean really change it. One of the Mystara regions is now comprised of floating islands. Another is a super-giant-tree forest (Elf-ville, natch).There were a couple of other routes. The baddies had their own Path to Immortality (in the Sphere of Entropy). That was deliberately not described in detail, but it would often involved KILLING EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD! (You might also have to betray your closest friend, corrupt the land for 100 miles around etc.)As I said, the implementation was a bit shaky, but we coped as always. It seems to be that Paragon and Epic campaigns could do worse than tap into those concepts (perhaps as dedicated books / boxed sets?)Finally, BECMI Immortals were exactly that. They couldn't die. The worst that could happen was that you forced them to recreate another temporary mortal shell, while all their Immortal buddies laughed at them for losing to a bunch of normals.I really dislike the idea of deities being just another monster to fight.</blockquote>

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