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General Tabletop Discussion
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The Stakes of Classifying Games as Rules Lite, Medium, or Heavy?
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8472903" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>In general, while I don't like doing so, rules light settingless is a doable thing, and it doesn't seem arbitrary most of the time. For me, it seems like more work in session than I care for, since extrapolating from the fiction isn't intuitive for me, but extrapolating to a task system can be.</p><p></p><p>For task systems, my first step is to see what the labels seem to make as the default ability assumption. As an example</p><p>For 2300 AD... (aka Traveller: 2300 2e)</p><p>Atts are 4d6-4 (reroll on 0), so 1-20; skills tend to be in the range 0-4, with 3 medicine being equivalent ton a newly graduated MD, and 1 being employable. (Atts are not the same as other traveller, but the skill range is close to that of CT, MT, and MGT(both).)</p><p>A task uses two "assets"... an asset being any of (A) Attribute/5, (B) Skill level, (C) a value from a specific device.</p><p>To do ____, <u><em>difficulty</em></u>, <u><em>Asset A</em></u>, <u><em>Asset B</em></u>, <u><em>Time Increment</em></u>. </p><p>Difficulties: Simple 3+, Routine 7+, Difficult 11+, Formidable 15+, Impossible 19+</p><p>Dice 1d10 + Asset A + Asset B for Difficulty TN+. Nat 1 is mishap if it's a failure. Failure by 2+ is also a mishap; both nat 1 and fail by 3 is a aggrivated mishap.</p><p>TIme (3d6 - (Asset A + Asset B)) × Time Increment</p><p>Extra time: double the 3d6, but shift difficulty down 1 step</p><p>Rushed: halve the 3d6, but shift difficulty up 1.</p><p>Joann Average is going to be att 10 and skill 1 in field.</p><p>So, on a typical Att+Skill task...</p><p>Simple: Automatic unless rushed, since 1d10+3 is minimum 4, vs 3+</p><p>Routine: Automatic if extra time. Normal time is minimum roll 4, so fail by 3 on nat 1, thus a mishap is 20% unless extra time, with half being aggrivated.</p><p>Difficult: nat 4+ if extra time, nat 8+ if not. </p><p>Formidable nat 8+ on extra time, not possible without extra time (nat 12 on 1d10), and without extra time, it's always a mishap.</p><p>Impossible the shift for extra time still needs a natural 12 (=15-3), so Joanne cannot succeed at all.</p><p></p><p>So, knowing that emploable journeyman tradesperson is the basis means I can make calls based upon that standard.</p><p></p><p>2300 isn't exactly rules light, but the task system makes it much lighter than it could be. It also makes my rulings more intuitive to me, and less arbitrary, since I can ask if a Journeyperson in a Trade should be able to pull it off... It is a big wide on the granularity, but that serves to reduce the arbitrariness.</p><p></p><p>For WEG d6, </p><p>All dice d6. attribute ranges is 1d to 4d for humans, skills range from 0d+1 above att, to maybe 10d above, but for starting PCs, 2d above, 3d if specializations are in that flavor in use. (SW 2E, and the D6 Space, D6 Fantasy, and D6 Adventure; most others don't have specialties)</p><p>Typical PC att is 3D. Typical main skill +2D, so 5D or so.</p><p>Extra Time: ×2=+1D, ×4=+2D, ×8=+3D.</p><p>Rushed -25%=TN+5, -50%=TN+10, -75=TN+20</p><p></p><p>Numbers version Very Easy 5, Easy 10, Moderate 15, Difficult 20, VDifficult 25, Heroic 30, Legendary 40 </p><p>VE, no extra time is 100%</p><p>E is 98.38%</p><p>M is 77.85%</p><p>D is 30.52%</p><p>VD is 3.24%</p><p>H is 0.1%</p><p>L is 0%</p><p>Rushing essentially shifts 1, 2, or 4 difficulties harder.</p><p>This gives me a baseline... note that it's for Abby Peecee, not Joanna Normal, as normal folk have only 2d average atts.</p><p>(VE 99.92%, E 90.28%, M 44.37%, D 5.4%, VD & up: 0%</p><p>So Moderate is the kind of thing Joanna Normal takes extra time, and fails occasionally, and Abby Peecee can do most of the time without extra time, but will take the extra time to ensure success outside of combat. </p><p></p><p>Those frameworks make it very easy for me to make on the fly rulings consistently, since I can work from "what a normal can do."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8472903, member: 6779310"] In general, while I don't like doing so, rules light settingless is a doable thing, and it doesn't seem arbitrary most of the time. For me, it seems like more work in session than I care for, since extrapolating from the fiction isn't intuitive for me, but extrapolating to a task system can be. For task systems, my first step is to see what the labels seem to make as the default ability assumption. As an example For 2300 AD... (aka Traveller: 2300 2e) Atts are 4d6-4 (reroll on 0), so 1-20; skills tend to be in the range 0-4, with 3 medicine being equivalent ton a newly graduated MD, and 1 being employable. (Atts are not the same as other traveller, but the skill range is close to that of CT, MT, and MGT(both).) A task uses two "assets"... an asset being any of (A) Attribute/5, (B) Skill level, (C) a value from a specific device. To do ____, [U][I]difficulty[/I][/U], [U][I]Asset A[/I][/U], [U][I]Asset B[/I][/U], [U][I]Time Increment[/I][/U]. Difficulties: Simple 3+, Routine 7+, Difficult 11+, Formidable 15+, Impossible 19+ Dice 1d10 + Asset A + Asset B for Difficulty TN+. Nat 1 is mishap if it's a failure. Failure by 2+ is also a mishap; both nat 1 and fail by 3 is a aggrivated mishap. TIme (3d6 - (Asset A + Asset B)) × Time Increment Extra time: double the 3d6, but shift difficulty down 1 step Rushed: halve the 3d6, but shift difficulty up 1. Joann Average is going to be att 10 and skill 1 in field. So, on a typical Att+Skill task... Simple: Automatic unless rushed, since 1d10+3 is minimum 4, vs 3+ Routine: Automatic if extra time. Normal time is minimum roll 4, so fail by 3 on nat 1, thus a mishap is 20% unless extra time, with half being aggrivated. Difficult: nat 4+ if extra time, nat 8+ if not. Formidable nat 8+ on extra time, not possible without extra time (nat 12 on 1d10), and without extra time, it's always a mishap. Impossible the shift for extra time still needs a natural 12 (=15-3), so Joanne cannot succeed at all. So, knowing that emploable journeyman tradesperson is the basis means I can make calls based upon that standard. 2300 isn't exactly rules light, but the task system makes it much lighter than it could be. It also makes my rulings more intuitive to me, and less arbitrary, since I can ask if a Journeyperson in a Trade should be able to pull it off... It is a big wide on the granularity, but that serves to reduce the arbitrariness. For WEG d6, All dice d6. attribute ranges is 1d to 4d for humans, skills range from 0d+1 above att, to maybe 10d above, but for starting PCs, 2d above, 3d if specializations are in that flavor in use. (SW 2E, and the D6 Space, D6 Fantasy, and D6 Adventure; most others don't have specialties) Typical PC att is 3D. Typical main skill +2D, so 5D or so. Extra Time: ×2=+1D, ×4=+2D, ×8=+3D. Rushed -25%=TN+5, -50%=TN+10, -75=TN+20 Numbers version Very Easy 5, Easy 10, Moderate 15, Difficult 20, VDifficult 25, Heroic 30, Legendary 40 VE, no extra time is 100% E is 98.38% M is 77.85% D is 30.52% VD is 3.24% H is 0.1% L is 0% Rushing essentially shifts 1, 2, or 4 difficulties harder. This gives me a baseline... note that it's for Abby Peecee, not Joanna Normal, as normal folk have only 2d average atts. (VE 99.92%, E 90.28%, M 44.37%, D 5.4%, VD & up: 0% So Moderate is the kind of thing Joanna Normal takes extra time, and fails occasionally, and Abby Peecee can do most of the time without extra time, but will take the extra time to ensure success outside of combat. Those frameworks make it very easy for me to make on the fly rulings consistently, since I can work from "what a normal can do." [/QUOTE]
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