The term 'Gain' in Polymorph.

[James McMurray]

Average.

What's the problem with a Succubus being physically weaker when polymorphed? Her hit points don't change, and its not likely that she's there for combat anyway.

 

[Thanee]

Except, once again, in the case of a succubus, they can *only* polymorph into humanoid form. No hill giants (thanks again, Hyp ), no bears, no thri-kreen, etc. No "massive strength bonuses, special attacks", etc. I still say that Succubi would have been better off with Alter Self being limited to humanoid forms only.

What's that? Alter self only allows changes between your type? Well polymorph allows any type, but not in the restrictions of succubi, so that arguement is out. If you're going to muck with Polymorph's normal rules, you can also change Alter Self's.

And, when you're looking at the type, there aren't *that* many types of humanoids that are better, statwise, than a succubus, and many of those would stick out just as much as her natural form.

Uhm... have you ever thought about the point of this ability even?

It's a disguise... not a combat spell... that's why it is restricted this way.

And Alter Self would only allow her to assume outsider humanoid forms then. It's one thing to restrict a spell, but a completely different to give a spell more ability than written.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jhulae]

Uhm... have you ever thought about the point of this ability even?

It's a disguise... not a combat spell... that's why it is restricted this way.

And Alter Self would only allow her to assume outsider humanoid forms then. It's one thing to restrict a spell, but a completely different to give a spell more ability than written.

Bye
Thanee

Then, being able to turn into a housecat would be a great disguise too.

And, giving the spell more ability? I don't get this. It'd still be limited to one type of form, Humanoid. Not outsiders and humanoids, just humanoids. And, gee, Alter Self (only humanoids) would still be a disguise, just not altering stats, therefore, not altering skills.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then, being able to turn into a housecat would be a great disguise too.

But one of the traditional abilities of the succubus in literature is the ability to assume the visage and shape of whatever woman her target most desires.

Despite any suggestions that might have been floated for content for the BoEF II, there's not much call for succubi in housecat form...

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Then, being able to turn into a housecat would be a great disguise too.

And, giving the spell more ability? I don't get this. It'd still be limited to one type of form, Humanoid. Not outsiders and humanoids, just humanoids. And, gee, Alter Self (only humanoids) would still be a disguise, just not altering stats, therefore, not altering skills.

Yeah, it would probably be an ability of similar magnitude, but Alter Self doesn't allow this, so you would make Alter Self more powerful and therefore Polymorph is the logical choice, since it already allows this. And there really is no problem (except for you, the probably only person on this planet to have a problem with it ).

BTW, could it be, that they forgot (self only) in many cases in the MM, when refering to Polymorph?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jhulae]

Yeah, it would probably be an ability of similar magnitude, but Alter Self doesn't allow this, so you would make Alter Self more powerful and therefore Polymorph is the logical choice, since it already allows this. And there really is no problem (except for you, the probably only person on this planet to have a problem with it ).

BTW, could it be, that they forgot (self only) in many cases in the MM, when refering to Polymorph?

Bye
Thanee

Well, that would certainly make things more interesting... "Oh, why yes Mr. Hill Giant.. You certainly are bigger and stronger than little old me.." *polymorphs hill giant into halfling* "Oh, wait.. I guess you're not.." *winks*

Of course, having a pretty good clue to what they inteded does make that really cheesy rules lawyering. It's good for a laugh, though.

 

[Thanee]

Well, polymorph still requires a voluntary target, but since the change in 3.5 from polymorph SELF to polymorph, which can be cast on others, this quite obvious limitation for some spell-like abilities (as for the succubus, I'm not quite sure, but I don't think it's limited to herself) just seems to be amiss.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Majere]

Do what our DM does
Let the succubis polymorph and keep her stats
And if somone complains say its a variant succubis that has special abilities. MM mobs are guidelines, in the end you can muck about with them as much as you see fit. Just remeber to alter the CR accordingly.

Majere

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, polymorph still requires a voluntary target, but since the change in 3.5 from polymorph SELF to polymorph, which can be cast on others, this quite obvious limitation for some spell-like abilities (as for the succubus, I'm not quite sure, but I don't think it's limited to herself) just seems to be amiss.

Heh - yeah, the Pixie, for example, has a 1/day Polymorph (self only) SLA.

The Succubus has an at will Polymorph (humanoid forms only, no limit on duration) SLA.

And remember, unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing. So if a succubus can catch you asleep (and given their literary origins - demons who visit sleeping men - that's not a huge stretch), she can turn you into a goblin, forever (or until dispelled).

Awesome

-Hyp.