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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clutchbone" data-source="post: 7198205" data-attributes="member: 98332"> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thank you for taking the time to review my Thug! I know there's a lot to cover, so let’s get started.</li> </ul>   <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">By Opportunity Attacks, I assume you meant Sneak Attacks?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Will a Strength Rogue be worse at stealth checks than a Dex Rogue? Yes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Will a Strength Rogue be better at stealth checks than any other class? Also yes.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With Stealth Expertise and 14 dex, an 8th level rogue has the same +8 stealth modifier as a monk or ranger with 20 dex.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With Stealth Expertise, 14 dex, and Reliable Talent, an 11th level rogue has a +10 stealth modifier and a minimum d20 roll of 10. An 11th level monk or ranger with 20 dex has a +9 modifier.</li> </ul></li> </ul>   <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It’s an image thing. I like the look of a burly Thug smacking a mace into his palm threateningly.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It gets kind of boring when 9/10 melee rogues use the same weapon, a rapier.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It means you can utilize a slightly larger pool of magic weapons.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I said “non-heavy/non-two-handed”, not “one-handed”, so you could get +1 damage if you went versatile with a longsword.</li> </ul>   <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It is not difficult to have 14 in a secondary stat.</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Why doesn’t the Strength Rogue in your example have 20 Strength? At 1st level, you’ll have something similar to a spread like 16 14 14 8 12 12 (half-orc), so I’m confused why you’re comparing an 8th level rogue (min level to get 20 dex) to a 1st level rogue?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That rogue will have +2 Dex bonus to Stealth on top of a doubled proficiency bonus.Later on, Reliable Talent pretty much cancels out the threat of disadvantage, so that half plate starts looking pretty good.</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Grappled creature’s speed becomes 0. They are not locked in place. You can move the grappled creature with you when you move with no contested check.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grappling creatures can attack each other. A character with extra attack can even substitute one of its attacks for a grapple.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maintaining a grapple doesn’t cost anything, so you’re free to attack on following turns, or knock them prone without breaking the grapple.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">To escape, monsters need to beat your strength (athletics) check, one that benefits from Expertise and Reliable Talent so you have the edge on them. If they do, great! They just wasted their action, possibly over multiple turns.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In your D&D experience, you “practically never” outnumber your opponent? How many Iron Golems does your group usually fight at once?</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Standing from prone costs half your speed. You can’t stand up from prone if your speed is 0.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In my experience, it’s quite fun shoving creatures into Blade Barriers, Walls of Fire, and Evards’ Black Tentacles, but cliffs work too.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Positioning for optimal shoving is easy. Opportunity Attacks only trigger when you leave their reach, not when you walk around them within their reach.</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Creatures that you grapple or shove must be more than one size larger than you, but they do not get any mechanical advantages, other than >20 strength scores (which you still beat on athletics rolls with Expertise). A high level Thug can out-grapple everything from a camel to a solar.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you want to get nasty and headlock something huge, befriend a wizard. Enlarge/Reduce is a 2nd level spell.</li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Once again, Expertise & Reliable Talent.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Also, this was mechanically modeled after the Swashbuckler’s Panache and the Mastermind’s Soul of Deceit, official rogue subclass features based on charisma skills vs insight.</li> </ul>Personally, I like the idea of grappling a minotaur, knocking him prone while maintaining that grapple, Sneak Attacking him with advantage a few times while he struggles and fails to break free and stand up, then (if he’s still alive) dragging him 60 feet across the ground before chucking him into my buddy’s cloudkill spell. But hey, to each his own.</blockquote>

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