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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7563810" data-attributes="member: 6880599">I would prefer a wisdom save to resist the fear as wisdom is generally the willpower stat. Charisma is usually a creative manipulation skill/save. But I very much like the idea of an "As written" strength intimidation check on a strength based check using static DC. Overall I like it too its well balanced but … and please understand I mean this with zero condescension, why not make this as fighter? I get the idea is strength rogue, I do. I just want to for consideration to consider that being a "Roguish Archetype" and playing the "Rogue class" are not actually joined at the hip. If I wanted to be a thief for example, I could play charlatan or urchin background with any class from barbarian to warlock and still be a thief regardless of if I am a Rogue Thief.Why not? Well I would point out that since the Rogue Class is not the only way to play a roguish character and rogue thief is not the only way to play a character that is a thief those are not actually what define Rogue in D&D 5e. It is instead a Dex and Intellect based Melee fighter that wears light armor and does not heavily use magic like a ranger Architype. If you are looking at building a Strength Melee Archtype character what your really doing is adding the strength/constitution armor wearing melee Fighter Class archetype to the Rogue Archetype which is evident by the need to add additional amour proficiency. Sure you can make a dex fighter but you will tend to medium and heavy armor. I just don't want to get stuck on this idea that a "Thuggish thief" is a rogue because rogue = thief. My suggestion: Thig as Thief fighterThugBandits, gangsters, enforcers, and other criminals typically follow this archetype but that don't focus on stealth and subtly but brute strength and intimidation to coerce targets to their will.Bonus ProficiencyWhen you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with Intimidation. If you have or gain the proficiency with Intimidation from another source you can expertise in Intimidation instead. (I mean that's really the heart of the Thug right?)Dirty WorkStarting at 3rd level, you have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks made to grapple or shove creatures that are surprised.In addition, you can use your reaction to make an attack, grapple, or dash if some other than you makes the first attack starting combat.(This changes away from a sneak attack since your not even try to sneak, to openly surround someone and if they attempt to resist you get an attack out of initiative order to immediately put them back in place because this is what you do and you half expect some one to fight back and run)Coercive PresenceAt 9th level, you can use your menacing demeanor to browbeat others into submission. As an action, you can make an ultimatum. Each character of your choice within 30ft must make a wisdom save or become afraid for 1 minute. The DC is 10 + your proficiency bonus + your strength modifier. Anyone effected by this ability may make a save at the end of their turn. On successful save the target is immune to the effect from the character for 1 hour.ManhandlerBy 13th level, you have become adept at leveraging your strength against your enemies. When you successfully grapple a creature using two free hands, you can drag or carry the grappled creature at full speed rather than half, and the grappled is silenced making them unable to speak or cast spells that include a verbal components.In addition, when you successfully shove a creature, you can knock the target prone and push it up to 10 feet away from you.-Unchanged short some text adjustment. I like it. devastating to casters but it requires melee range to grapple and it seems like something that very much fits the subclass for dealing with casters. Arguments that a grapple can normally silence are not based on RAW since nothing about the grappled condition says it can silence only that their speed is reduced to 0. Many GMs will rule that you don't silence them or perhaps make you roll with disadvantage to cause this extra effect, so having it here makes it explicit as part of the feature. Cheap ShotWhen you reach 17th level, you've honed your ability to strike when the opportunity presents itself. When you use your action to grapple or shove a creature, you can use your bonus action to make a weapon attack against that creature.-Unchanged. It also fits very well under a fighter as well.So I very much like your idea of a "Roguish Thug" but I actually like it much better using the Fighter Class template for the same "Roguish Thug" design. The class features like saves, proficiency options, expertise,</blockquote>

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