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General Tabletop Discussion
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The Thug, A Subclass for Strength Rogues
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<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 7595852" data-attributes="member: 23484"><p>As it turns out, I agree with you -- there's more grappling in this build than would suit my taste. I do not think it is overpowered, however.</p><p>In fact, I think the OP has heard criticisms, and been careful to limit the power:</p><p>Dirty hands (level 3) - only works in a surprise round. So that's, what, once every four or five combats? </p><p>Manhandler (level 13, so well beyond what most games get to in any case) - requires two free hands, but allows you to move +15' and cover someone's mouth.</p><p>Cheap Shot (level 17) - allows a grapple+weapon attack (and so excludes the use of manhandler at the same time). This is at the level that Wizards get the Wish spell, Time Stop, and Power Word Kill. </p><p></p><p>Given the depth of response you have received, I am confident they do understand. </p><p></p><p>I will answer for myself; others may feel differently. </p><p></p><p>Non-magical classes are thin on the ground. There's fighter and rogue and (depending on one's view), barbarian. The fighter is the pre-eminent nonmagical warrior. Knows weapons and armour The barbarian is fuelled by the rage mechanism. The rouge is defined by skills -- not by combat. </p><p></p><p>If I don't want to play a professional warrior, then rogue is my only option. </p><p></p><p>As it turns out, when 5e was being developed, there were two subclasses for Rogue, one a Thief and one a Thug. It is a straightforward, natural association that they chose not to pursue. There is nothing mysterious about it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Stew, post: 7595852, member: 23484"] As it turns out, I agree with you -- there's more grappling in this build than would suit my taste. I do not think it is overpowered, however. In fact, I think the OP has heard criticisms, and been careful to limit the power: Dirty hands (level 3) - only works in a surprise round. So that's, what, once every four or five combats? Manhandler (level 13, so well beyond what most games get to in any case) - requires two free hands, but allows you to move +15' and cover someone's mouth. Cheap Shot (level 17) - allows a grapple+weapon attack (and so excludes the use of manhandler at the same time). This is at the level that Wizards get the Wish spell, Time Stop, and Power Word Kill. Given the depth of response you have received, I am confident they do understand. I will answer for myself; others may feel differently. Non-magical classes are thin on the ground. There's fighter and rogue and (depending on one's view), barbarian. The fighter is the pre-eminent nonmagical warrior. Knows weapons and armour The barbarian is fuelled by the rage mechanism. The rouge is defined by skills -- not by combat. If I don't want to play a professional warrior, then rogue is my only option. As it turns out, when 5e was being developed, there were two subclasses for Rogue, one a Thief and one a Thug. It is a straightforward, natural association that they chose not to pursue. There is nothing mysterious about it. [/QUOTE]
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