The trends of 2005

[Akrasia]

...I don't think Castles & Crusades will be a big thing in any commonly used definition of the word. It'll have some good Internet buzz, which could mean little more than half a dozen really vocal fans are always praising it (about where it is now, actually, at least around here, and I hear about it even less at rpg.net.) ...

Well I guess I am one of these 'vocal fans'.

But I have noticed frequent threads on C&C over at RPG.net (though they tend to come and go ever couple of weeks), so I disgree with you about the interest level there. (Anyhow, this is a pretty trivial point...)

That said, your claim about C&C rests on a faulty assumption, namely:

It's appeal is too limited; I doubt many people in the market want such an overtly nostalgic experience.
...

C&C is not simply a 'nostalgic experience' -- and I don't know why people keep claiming this. (People who want that already have Hackmaster, in any case...) I suppose it is because Castle Zagyg is being produced for it?

Now, don't get me wrong, C&C will appeal to 'old school' gamers, but this is because of the rules themselves, as they have much in common with pre-3E D&D (no feats, a simple and fast combat system, etc.). The fact that the rules will be compatible with OD&D and OAD&D material (modules) is also a factor here.

More generally, though, C&C is hoping to appeal to two distinct groups: (a.) those who want an 'in print' game similar to OD&D, OAD&D, and/or RC D&D (I guess this is the 'old school' group -- but C&C is not trying to target 'nostalgia' alone, rather a particular style of play); and (b.) those who want a 'rules lite' alternative to 3E, but a system that is still broadly compatible with 3E.

I actually think that there is a 'big market' (I say 'big market' in terms of the RPG market willing to purchase non-WotC products) for (b.), and that C&C will be a success to the extent that it can 'tap into' that market. (There has not been an 'in print' product that catered to this segment of the market for over a decade now.)

More generally, I think C&C has to a great extent already secured (a.), and consequently will 'survive' as a viable game system on that market alone, but it will be a 'success' ony if it can effectively tap into (b.).

(Again I mean 'success' in appropriately modest terms: C&C will not come close to rivalling 3E, but it might carve out a respectable niche as the 'rules lite' FRPG, for people who want that style of game.)

 

[johnsemlak]

You are probably right. Gary Gygax's books for TLG did not stir much interest over here on ENWorld, either, so the nostalgia factor seems not to convert directly into sales interest. I have no idea how well they sold in "real world" shops, though.

Actually, I think some of Gygax's books for TLG may have sold reasonably well. I dont' know the sales numbers, but the World Builder was reprinted, which is a very rare thing in this business even among successful products. The series has also seen about 5 or 6 books, so it seems to be a seller.

Whatever people's opinion's about EGG, he is one of the very few (any?) authors in d20 who has widespread name recognition, (I mean outside of areas like EN World).

Also, I think some other Gygax products like NG's Necropolis sold well.

Now, I do share some skepticism with above posters that TLG's Castles and Crusades will be a big success. We'll just have to see. TLG seems to keep chugging along printing a lot of 'old school' stuff and if sales were extremely bad they'd have to stop at some point.

 

[Krug]

Is the Rifts movie coming out next year? If it's a hit I think there'll be additional interest in RPGs, which would give the hobby a little boost.

At least this year there's been more positive articles in the media about D&D than probably ever before.

I also expect the Warcraft 2nd Ed to be a hit, and I'm waiting to see Arcana Evolved.

 

[Stone Dog]

My prediction:

FR will have another cataclysm.

You mean like all the dragons going stark raving mad and rampaging uncontrollably through out the land?

Already underway.

 

[Eremite]

You mean like all the dragons going stark raving mad and rampaging uncontrollably through out the land?

Already underway.

FR's Rage of Dragons, at least, is consistent with its published history. However, the rumoured plans for a series of novels involving the building of a giant canal can only result in a series of novels that may cause even the most diehard FR novel fan to give up.

 

[Maggan]

C&C is not simply a 'nostalgic experience' -- and I don't know why people keep claiming this.

Well I remain sceptical of the great success of C&C, not because of the rulesset, but because people are, like it or not, thinking that it is a game mostly created to cater for nostalgia.

Now, don't read this wrong. I'm not saying you are playing it for that reason, or that everyone is playing it for that reason. I'm not saying anything about the rules, since I haven't read them.

What I'm saying is that the impression the development of C&C and the communication about the project from the start, has made on me, who has not been seeing the rules develop, is that C&C is going for the nostalgia angle.

And that's a problem for C&C, because first impressions last.

That may be a faulty impression, but I sort of think I'm not the only one, judging by your frustration. And unfortunately for TLG and C&C, and for the devoted fans, this impression will not change because the rules are good, or because Castle Zagyg is out.

It will change if the game is heavily marketed. And I for one, don't think that the small, rather indistinct ads in Dragon are going to translate into C&C begin a huge hit. It will be a hit, probably selling a couple thousands of copies.

Unless TLG focuses the marketing on one or two key aspects that are not nostalgia, and then starts doing full page ads in Dragon and Dungeon.

Of course, I might be wrong. I hope so, since I like the idea of a rules lite D&D. It's just that C&C seems to be the wrong kind of rules lite to me (still 12 classes and six saving throws being the chief things I don't like).

But, good luck to C&C and TLG. May the new game be a huge hit!

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Psion]

My take on C&C

I think it will be a strong product for TLG... because at last, it is a niche that they failed to find with their "also ran" core d20 products.

That said, I don't think it will be spectacular by any means. The "old school" subgroup is simply too fragmented. As I recall, several prospective members stomped out of the C&C playtest group when they figured out that d20 was going to be a central baseline. Others still cling to hackmaster, or their old books.

 

[diaglo]

FR's Rage of Dragons, at least, is consistent with its published history. However, the rumoured plans for a series of novels involving the building of a giant canal can only result in a series of novels that may cause even the most diehard FR novel fan to give up.

the continuation of the Shadow Weave, Spellfire, the return of the Archwizards, the Drow Undead/Lolth war, the Rage of Dragons, and so on... plus the need for a new Space/Spelljammer mechanic for 3.5ed will cause much to happen in the FR.

 

[Belen]

Castles and Crusades will do well, I believe. Personally, I would like to see what people are saying over at Dragonsfoot about the game. If strong interest can be found there, then the game could gather an instant and large following.

Personally, I already have the books on pre-order. I think that C&C is coming at the right time to grab a lot of people tiring of 3e and end up as a better edition of classic D&D then 3e.

C&C will depend largely on its writing. If it can get past the dry. boring, bland writing that has characterized 3e, then it will do well. Heck, if it comes out soon enough, I will even run it at the next NC game day.

 

[Desdichado]

Oh, I think it'll do well in terms of what a publisher like TLG expects from a publication of theirs. This implication that it'll take the gaming world by storm, on the otherhand, is absurdly optimistic, I think. Akrasia hit the nail on the head; it's got to get out of the nostalgic "ghetto" if you will. People don't seem to be really associating it with "a rules lite alternative to d20" so much as they do "a d20 version of BD&D."

Right now it's mostly got the attention of those who want a nostalgic experience moreso than those who want a rules lite experience. Which is unfortunate, as the latter market is probably a bigger one.