The Trouble With Union
- Thread starter DCrane1
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Tyler Do'Urden
Soap Maker
Because Union is indicative of everything that is wrong with WotC's treatment of epic-level campaigns; simply put, Union isn't anything new- it's just power inflation. "Hey, your city guards are 2nd level warriors... ours are 20th level fighters!"
Unlike the old high-level campaigns book (which specifically said it wasn't designed to help players build characters made to "lay waste to the countryside"), the ELH is all about inflating the numbers, and inflating them to a point where the game isn't really much fun anymore. As the high-level portions of the Adventure Paths have shown, there's really very little reason to continue gaming much past 20th level anyway, as you can do about anything at high levels (15th-20th) that you can in the "epic levels".
So yes, I'll keep Sigil and skip Union. When PC's are 20th level, it should mean something... not that they're just 1st level characters with more numbers to keep track of.
Unlike the old high-level campaigns book (which specifically said it wasn't designed to help players build characters made to "lay waste to the countryside"), the ELH is all about inflating the numbers, and inflating them to a point where the game isn't really much fun anymore. As the high-level portions of the Adventure Paths have shown, there's really very little reason to continue gaming much past 20th level anyway, as you can do about anything at high levels (15th-20th) that you can in the "epic levels".
So yes, I'll keep Sigil and skip Union. When PC's are 20th level, it should mean something... not that they're just 1st level characters with more numbers to keep track of.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Kem said:
Actually, that would be a strong reason why I would like it. I'm not a fan of Planescape.
Plus, I don't think the ELH really jacked up the power levels to ridiculous levels. In fact, I think the designers erred way too far on the safe side. They made epic level adventuring seem kind of mundane. There were only a few instances of truly awesome material for epic level characters, the kind of stuff that makes you sit up and really notice how different epic level characters are. Some of the epic spells approached that feel, but the prereqs made many of them unusable even by a lot of deities. There was no real point to them being in there if they could never be used (at least, by anyone who is even remotely playing by the rules as written). The most consistently cool section of the book is the monster section. Many of them really do seem appropriate challenges for epic level characters.
All that said, Union just seemed kind of silly, and like an afterthought. It was pretty much like any other city, except everyone was high level. You'd think a city made up of such powerful characters would have a lot really breathtaking landmarks or qualities. But Union just seemed kind of blah. I mean, every inhabitant would be, and may well be, a mighty hero somewhere else. Unio should be a city like Tanelorn in Michael Moorcock's "Eternal Champion" stories. But Union makes all these guys just faces in a crowd. The only time any characters really seem to come to life are the two bumbling, blustering adventurers somewhere in the 7th-9th level range who try to swagger around like the big dogs. It's an interesting bit of background, but there isn't much beyond that to make Union come alive.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Piratecat said:
Yeah, "boring" is the best word for it, and should be anathema to any RPG city, especially an epic level D&D one.
I wonder how it could be salvaged?
There's nothing wrong with Union in its basic concept. It's not very much like Sigil, and that's a good thing - it fills an entirely different niche. The mercane, for whatever reason, are terrified of Sigil, so it makes sense they'd construct a planar metropolis of their own. And Union's an interesting one.
But parts of it are extremely silly, to the point of damaging the game by ruining the suspension of disbelief. Making the average;/i] guard 15th level is just a stupid waste of even the mercanes' copious funds. The average inhabitant of Union, unless they have a spell that detects low-level characters at the gate and refuses to allow them to come in and spend their money until they've gained a dozen or so levels in a PC class, is going to be pretty as low-level as in any other city. Most people are low-level in general, after all, and if Sigil doesn't need every guard to be in the mid-teens in a city where powerful fiends run amuck, Union certainly doesn't. They should hire ordinary low-level guards to deal with the ordinary mugs and keep a high-level strike team for emergencies, hiring adventurers passing through for very difficult tasks.
That would really transform the city for me, making it a lot more appealing, to simply acknowledge that most people everywhere are low-level rather than to ruin the concept of being high-level by rendering it meaningless in context, in a city where everyone is impossibly, improbably, stupidly high-level, making high-level mean nothing at all.
But parts of it are extremely silly, to the point of damaging the game by ruining the suspension of disbelief. Making the average;/i] guard 15th level is just a stupid waste of even the mercanes' copious funds. The average inhabitant of Union, unless they have a spell that detects low-level characters at the gate and refuses to allow them to come in and spend their money until they've gained a dozen or so levels in a PC class, is going to be pretty as low-level as in any other city. Most people are low-level in general, after all, and if Sigil doesn't need every guard to be in the mid-teens in a city where powerful fiends run amuck, Union certainly doesn't. They should hire ordinary low-level guards to deal with the ordinary mugs and keep a high-level strike team for emergencies, hiring adventurers passing through for very difficult tasks.
That would really transform the city for me, making it a lot more appealing, to simply acknowledge that most people everywhere are low-level rather than to ruin the concept of being high-level by rendering it meaningless in context, in a city where everyone is impossibly, improbably, stupidly high-level, making high-level mean nothing at all.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
The "boring" snipe is also on-target. 20th-level streetsweepers don't scream EPIC to me. It's a wasted opportunity.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
In concept, Union should have been one of the most distinct, fascinating RPG cities ever. Perhaps the basic material could be reworked. Might make a cool fan project, but I doubt there's enough interest.
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