D&D 4E The True Swordmage

[Garthanos]

See that's the beauty of it. For me it was the exact opposite. I always envisioned a swordmage as someone who " happens to hold a sword in one hand while using the other for weaving of spells."

D&D had multi-classing a long long time where spells for a swordsman had next to nothing to do with him being a swordsman ie that has existed a long time
The swordmages magic being distinct out of the box and not exactly the same stuff every caster does is why I feel more supported than yourself in that regards. D&D has always allowed flexibility in flavor and it works up to a point I felt the Swordmage brought something new to the table out of the box a sense of deeper integration (for one thing Intelligent Blademastery the attacks based on Intellect).
And the Eldritch Knight really doesn't do much any of it for me the magic seems obviously pasted on.
Additionally that flavor one hand magic one hand weapon (if not necessarily effectiveness) is served so easily in 5e ville just by taking levels in 2 classes, shrug. The 5e flavor one is still primarily using brawn and muscle power to make his weapon use work.

That's exactly how I have flavored my 4e swordmage.

Hybrid does I think make a much better match though plying the MC especially if you were picking up rituals ought I think gets a long ways there. (while completely functional)
Hybrids finished popping the top off in 4e character design flexibility.
Hybriding those two really works ummm almost too well, and really does give more of that duality to you.

Also why I took the wizard MC feat (would have done a Swordmage/Wizard hybrid if the rules for hybrid classes had been out at the beginning) and heavily flavored and roleplayed him as much as a boring academic who answered the most simple questions about magic with a lengthy boring rant about the basic "maths" behind the most exciting phenomenon (I sure had maxed my arcana skill to 11, would have gone for Sage of Ages if I had ever reached epic levels) than a dashing swordman

Fast thinking renaissance man who analyses everything tallying up scores almost in advance but also after the fact and who's approach even in physical arenas is highly unusual ... but sure dashing when the situation arises . /bows

Alek CorDaren will also be found jotting notes in the margins of his inherited book of techniques.

 

[Mirtek]

D&D had multi-classing a long long time where spells for a swordsman had next to nothing to do with him being a swordsman ie that has existed a long time
The swordmages magic being distinct out of the box and not exactly the same stuff every caster does is why I feel more supported than yourself in that regards. D&D has always allowed flexibility in flavor and it works up to a point I felt the Swordmage brought something new to the table out of the box a sense of deeper integration (for one thing Intelligent Blademastery the attacks based on Intellect).
And the Eldritch Knight really doesn't do much any of it for me the magic seems obviously pasted on.
Additionally that flavor one hand magic one hand weapon (if not necessarily effectiveness) is served so easily in 5e ville just by taking levels in 2 classes, shrug. The 5e flavor one is still primarily using brawn and muscle power to make his weapon use work.

Hybrid does I think make a much better match though plying the MC especially if you were picking up rituals ought I think gets a long ways there. (while completely functional)
Hybrids finished popping the top off in 4e character design flexibility.
Hybriding those two really works ummm almost too well, and really does give more of that duality to you.


Fast thinking renaissance man who analyses everything tallying up scores almost in advance but also after the fact and who's approach even in physical arenas is highly unusual ... but sure dashing when the situation arises . /bows

Alek CorDaren will also be found jotting notes in the margins of his inherited book of techniques.

Yes, goes without saying that this character knew every ritual up to his level that was ever printed (I even hunted down the special cards at Cons that allowed to learn the rituals from the supplements that otherwise were not LFR legal).

Too bad I never made it to epic levels, as you actually meet Corellon Larethian in one of the epic LFR mods that ended the campaign.

I would have loved to have my character do a most epic arcana check to meticulously explain to Corellon why the current cosmic structure of elven high magic is inefficient and what he can do to fix those flaws

 

[Garthanos]

 

[Flamestrike]

5E is literally the most Gish friendly edition of DnD ever. Between Blade pact Warlocks (in particular the Hexblade), Eldritch knights, Bladesingers, Valor and Swords Bards, Sorcadins, Fighter/ Wizard MC's, Battle Smith artificers and so forth its bonkers how many warrior mages there are.

I really dont think we need another Gish class.

 

[Krachek]

I think dissatisfaction came more from spell choice and overall game mechanic.
having concentration on defensive spell is a meh,
EK would benefit a lot of paladin spells like the various smite spell,
VSM is nice for fluff and flavor, but applied strictly it can mess up the game feeling of a gish,
combat are very short, and tend to favor big explosive nova, rather than build up strategy,
for a high level EK its number of attacks, make all other 1 action option very meh,

 

[Garthanos]

I think dissatisfaction came more from spell choice and overall game mechanic.
having concentration on defensive spell is a meh,

Particularly bad for a defender who is supposed to be in melee and attract enemies away from their allies as a default function.

EK would benefit a lot of paladin spells like the various smite spell,

maybe or ways to pump an extra attack into expanding a spells area of effect.
Or using it to blink like real swordmage.

VSM is nice for fluff and flavor, but applied strictly it can mess up the game feeling of a gish,
combat are very short, and tend to favor big explosive nova, rather than build up strategy,
for a high level EK its number of attacks, make all other 1 action option very meh,

I think supporting nova is fine if most everyone can do it.

 

[Krachek]

Particularly bad for a defender who is supposed to be in melee and attract enemies away from their allies as a default function.

maybe or ways to pump an extra attack into expanding a spells area of effect.
Or using it to blink like real swordmage.

I think supporting nova is fine if most everyone can do it.

I think there is still a lot work to do to have a swordmage. Spread apart we have different cantrip and spell that have interesting feature for a sword mage. From booming blade, to thorn whip, misty step, mirror image, blink, even the vicious mockery disadvantage effect would serve well a sword mage, but all that stuff still need to be wrap up, and have a more fluid use.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I think there is still a lot work to do to have a swordmage. Spread apart we have different cantrip and spell that have interesting feature for a sword mage. From booming blade, to thorn whip, misty step, mirror image, blink, even the vicious mockery disadvantage effect would serve well a sword mage, but all that stuff still need to be wrap up, and have a more fluid use.

Also, you need to get a few levels in several different classes to get access to all of those (since they're spread across several spell lists), so you can't really play a character who plays 'like a swordmage' until late-game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

5E is literally the most Gish friendly edition of DnD ever. Between Blade pact Warlocks (in particular the Hexblade), Eldritch knights, Bladesingers, Valor and Swords Bards, Sorcadins, Fighter/ Wizard MC's, Battle Smith artificers and so forth its bonkers how many warrior mages there are.

I really dont think we need another Gish class.

And yet, there aren’t very many options that actually do what Garth described and what the Swordmage did in 4e. There are a handful of spells and 2 cantrips, and...that’s really it.

 

[NotAYakk]

Booming/Greenflame.
Blade Ward.
Shadow Blade.
Misty Step.
Shield.
Smites.
Thorn Whip.
Lightning Lure
Sword Burst
Absorb Elements
Arcane Weapon
True Strike
Armor of Agys
Compelled Duel
Ensaring Strike
Mage Armor
Zephyr Strike
Blur
Enlarge/Reduce
Flame Blade
Magic Weapon
Mirror Image
Warding Bond
Elemental Weapon
Enemies Abound
Haste
Spirit Guardians
Death Ward
Confusion
Dimension Door
Fire Shield
Freedom of Movement
etc

Problem is, this sword mage falls into "class as a conbat style" problem. It needs a better story hanging off it.