The Wars of America--By Robert Leckie

mmadsen said:

It's compressed, accurate, colorful, and bold!

My favorite "I did not know that":

Even before the New World was colonized, the Spanish had revolutionized war by introducing an improved matchlock musket and fielding units of professional foot soldiers called infantry. (The name derives from the custom of adopting Spanish princes, or infantes, as the honorary colonels of various formations.)

Don't feel bad about not knowing that, mmadsen -- that's because t'ain't true. Mr. Leckie may be a published author, but he's not much of an etymologist, or even a researcher.

From Merriam-Webster:

Etymology: Middle French & Old Italian; Middle French infanterie, from Old Italian infanteria, from infante boy, foot soldier, from Latin infant-, infans

From Dictionary.com
[French infanterie, from Old French, from Old Italian infanteria, from infante, youth, foot soldier, from Latin nfns, nfant-, infant. See infant.]

From Word Origins:
in-fan-try \'inf&n-trE, -ri\ n -ES [MF & OIt; MF infanterie, fr. OIt infanteria, fr. infante infant, boy, footman, foot soldier (fr. L infant-, infans infant) + -eria -ry -- more at INFANT] 1a: soldiers trained, armed, and equipped to fight on foot b: a branch of the army composed of such soldiers c: an infantry regiment (the 8th Infantry ) d: MOONLIGHT BLUE 2: [influenced in meaning by 1 infant] a body of children
So, in this entry (taken from Merriam Webster's 3rd New International Dictionary), we first find the entry, the word infantry, which is followed by the pronunciation, the classification of the part of speech--in this case a noun, the plural form, and then the etymology. The etymology is then followed by the definitions, in this case there are two main senses, with the first sense having four sub-categories. The order of the components of the entry and the abbreviations used will vary from dictionary to dictionary. Look in the front of the dictionary to find the style and abbreviations used by that particular set of editors.
So, we can see that infantry comes into English from the Middle French infanterie, which in turn comes from the Old Italian infanteria. This Old Italian military term comes from the word infante, which can mean a foot soldier in addition to the sense of a baby. This Old Italian word derives from the Latin root infant- or infans. Finally the dictionary tells us that there is more information to be found under the entry for infant.

From some random university page
By the Renaissance, new weapons, especially, the crossbow and gun, had made the noble's heavy armor more burden than protection. The foot soldier —what the nobles had calle "infantry," that is, children —could now kill a horseman almost as easily as the horseman could kill him.

This is the first of Mr. Leckie's facts that I bothered to look up; every source I find gives an alternate etymology for the word "infantry." The alternate etymology is not, of course, as colorful as his.

Given that he doesn't list his bibliography because it "would have been too voluminous to publish", and that he apparently didn't crack open a dictionary to verify his etymology, I can't say I'm overwhelmed by his scholarship. He sounds to me like a teller of tall tales masquerading as an historian. I'd love to have him as a DM, but if he told me it was raining I wouldn't believe him until I got a chance to step outside.

Daniel
 
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Given that he doesn't list his bibliography because it "would have been too voluminous to publish", and that he apparently didn't crack open a dictionary to verify his etymology, I can't say I'm overwhelmed by his scholarship. He sounds to me like a teller of tall tales masquerading as an historian.
I guess we should revise our review to "It's compressed, colorful, and bold! Not necessarily accurate though." I do have to wonder where that infantry story came from...
 

Greetings!

Well, be that as it may, Mr. Robert Leckie is a scholar, not merely a "storyteller!":) I can't imagine him just pulling something out of thin air, as it were. It seems to me that there must have been some credible place that such history was found. Perhaps there were conflicting source material? The task of the Historian is often to pick and choose among a range of applicable sources. I don't know for sure, of course, but if it were a simple matter of checking a dictionary, I can't imagine that the author would overlook that, nor can I see the author's editor overlooking such an item either.:) It seems strange.

Still, "The Wars of America" is an excellent book. I would encourage everyone to read it. I have read it, and found it to be a very well written, evocative, and informative book, and I think it makes a fine addition to anyone's library.:)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 
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SHARK said:
Greetings!

I have read it, and found it to be a very well written, evocative, and informative book....:)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark, I don't doubt that it's well-written and evocative; I just doubt that it's informative.

Mr. Leckie, incidentally, got the story about "infantry" from his fellow marines. You see, the real etymology of "infantry" implies that foot soldiers are children, so the marines have a folk-etymology going around amongst them. One night while they were bivouacing during basic training, one of the privates in Mr. Leckie's platoon was shooting off at the mouth, and passed the folk etymology on to Mr. Leckie. He saw no reason to doubt it, so he included it in his book.

I bet you're wondering how I know that. I'd give you my sources, but honestly, they're too numerous to list. :D

I told my girlfriend about this historian who doesn't provide a bibliography because his sources are too numerous. She's got a masters in history. Here's what she looked like when I told her this: :rolleyes:

And that's the point. Had Mr. Leckie listed his sources, we could judge them for ourselves. Since he didn't, he may as well have gotten that factoid from a drunken NCO, or from the tooth fairy, or from his butt. We have no way to know. That's why academics like bibliographies and footnotes.

I've done a bit of googling, and I can't find any page that provides the same etymology for "infantry" that he suggests. While I can't, of course, confirm that Mr. Leckie heard the definition around a campfire, it seems likely to me. He may have read it in a fanciful book and not bothered to check his facts.

In any case, I'm not suggesting that his book is bad source material for a D&D game: he's definitely got a dramatic, heroic, epic writing style, from the quotes y'all've provided here. But given that the first factoid of his that I bothered to look up turned out to be false, I'd not give much credibility to *anything* he wrote unless I could confirm it from other sources.

Okay, my girlfriend is back, with a book recommendation: The Name of War, by Jill Lepore. It is, according to the Boston Globe, "Brilliant...Lepore's grasp of the complexities and varieties of the human beings in her drama matches that of a fine novelist....this is history as it should be written." It uses primary sources, is extensively documented, and follows the rigorous standards academia uses to evaluate scholarly works, to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think it's probably at a higher reading level that Mr. Leckie's book, but if you're interested in accuracy over adventure, it's probably the better place to turn for a history of the Indian Wars.

Semper veritas,
Daniel
 
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I told my girlfriend about this historian who doesn't provide a bibliography because his sources are too numerous.
The standards for citing references are vastly different between academic works and popular books though. No one's pretending this is an academic work to cite in your own research publications.

Incidentally, this has to be one of the very few times I didn't look up an etymology on m-w.com myself. That'll learn me.
 

Pielorinho said:

It is, according to the Boston Globe...

I don't care for the Globe, but they tend to be careful about supporting historical books- especially after the Arming America debacle.

If they say a history book is legit, then I would give it a serious look.

FD
 

jester47 said:
First as a historian and second as a cherokee,

Hey a member of the fraternity (historians, not cherokee). It's nice not to be the only one on the boards.

Naturally, as a fellow historian, I agree with anything that jester 47 says! ;)
 

Greetings!

Hah! Indeed, Daniel, bibliographies are important in academia.:) I have in my personal library many, many scholarly books, with a particular emphasis on ancient history and World War II. I have read several of Robert Leckie's other books, including The Wars of America. In past books, I can say that Mr. Leckie included bibliographies. In my own considerable studies, particularly of World War II, I have not found anything in Mr. Leckie's books where the essential historical narrative has differed or been inconsistent with any other scholarly work on the subject at hand. I would also add that Mr. Leckie's writing style is not only clean, bold, and vigorous, but he has a spledid gift for writing history in such a manner far superior to many other scholars--most of whom put most readers to sleep inside of twenty pages!:)
Again, I have read the book, and have found it informative, as well as interesting and evocative. I would gladly recommend that you might pick it up and read it as well, and really get into the book, down in the trenches, so to speak. Minor discrepancies aside, I have found Mr. Leckie to be generally very accurate. I have read many scholarly books--including college text books written by entire staffs of scholars--that had similar, if not more significant and glaring errors!:)

However, I do find your own theory quite entertaining! Fellow Marines indeed!:) Semper Veritas? What branch have you served in Daniel?

I suppose it may be interesting to read some of Mr. Leckie's words from the preface to The Wars of America , that I shall quote from directly:
____________________________________________________
Quote:

"Space limitations in a book of this scope have precluded the listing of a bibliography. A comprehensive one was simply out of the question, while a selected bibliography could well have run to another forty or fifty pages. In its place, I have included a list of recommended books and would refer the reader to Colonel Vincent J. Esposito’s excellent and longer list in The West Point Atlas of American Wars, two volumes, New York: Praeger, 1959. Much of the research for this book was based upon that list.

It should go without saying that, apart from World War II, Korea and Vietnam, in which I had a personal interest, this work depends upon published sources. Nor do I pretend to have read everything published about every American war. When it is considered that one may collect more than 25,000 volumes and articles on the Civil War alone, it may be seen that the problem was not one of finding material but of choosing from it. Therefore, to have gone over ground already spaded by abler men before me would have been not only impossibly time-consuming but also pretentious.

Space limitations have also compelled me to confine reference notes to direct quotations. To footnote every statistic or observation would have been to number every third or fourth sentence. In the interest of smoother reading, all spelling and punctuation has been modernized, except where a certain echo from the past seemed appropriate. All dates are for the Time Zone in which the event occurred, and, to avoid the impression so rare in warfare, figures for casualties, the size of armies or the number of their arms, as well as the distances they have marched or sailed to battle, are usually rounded off to the nearest zero.

Finally, let me acknowledge my great debt to my editors: to the late Cass Canfield and to Norbert Slepyan for their kindly assistance on the original edition of this work published in 1968; to Corona Machemer for the same reasons on the revised and updated edition of 1981; and to M.S. (“Buz”) Wyeth and Daniel Bial for their suggestions, patience and tact on this new, updated revision of 1992—to Mrs. Clarice Browne, librarian at Roxbury (New Jersey) High School, who kindly lent me copies of news magazines I was unable to obtain—and, of course, to my dear wife, who actually runs this lash-up as top kick and mess sergeant, for typing the manuscript while wearing her third hat of company clerk.

Robert Leckie

Polliwog Pond
Byram Township, N.J.
September 23, 1991"
____________________________________________________
End Quote.

It would seem to me that Mr. Leckie makes a fair explanation, and I must confess that I have seen other scholars employ such different organizational choices on occasion. I also think that Mr. Leckie's bold style of writing is certainly not politically correct, and his entire writing style is more like that of a story-teller than that of a dry academic. Strangely, my own university history professors used to explain that the Historians, essentially, are "Story-tellers." Truly brilliant and gifted history professors will seek to become "story-tellers" rather than lecturing academics!:) Well, at any rate, it seems certain that Mr. Leckie has done an excellent job of making history interesting. I would recommend the fine book for anyone--scholar or layman alike--as an excellent addition to one's personal library. The book is huge--1200+ pages!--and rich in detail. By all means, don't be content to merely read excerpts--buy the book, and read it thoroughly for yourself. At the end of the day, I think anyone who reads the entire book will have a greatly enjoyable experience, and be quite well-informed about the wars of America. That is my best recommendation.:)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

"First to go, last to know! We will defend to the death our right to be misinformed."
The Short Timers, Gustav Hasford

Shark, I respect your opinion and your love for this history. I have not read the book in question and cannot rightly comment on any part of it directly, so I will not. I most certainly WILL NOT comment on the quality of the author's writing.

However, on your claim that a book without a bibliography is a scholarly work - I must disagree. It is a part of being a scholar to cite your sources so that other scholars can assess the validity of your historical arguments and your sources. To not provide references and a bibliography interferes with the process of academic history.

Of course, in the case of popular history, which is what this book sounds like, it's a perfectly acceptable position to take.

Anyway, that's my little nitpick.

BTW, even though I'm not American, I have the utmost respect for the USMC and its members. Hasford's book, quoted above, gives a phenomenal insight into the experience of Paris Island and being a grunt. My hat is off to you sir, you've chosen a hard road.
 

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