The Year of Drizzt? (20th Anniversary)

[Ranger REG]

I'm sure that most Drizzt Haters (with the capital H) are closet fanboys!

No, they're just in the closet.

 

[Crothian]

But with geeks there's a different mentality: It's not cool to like something the majority likes.

The Majority of the people on this site like D&D though.

 

[ender_wiggin]

I will pitch my two cents and say that being part of such a young generation ( I was born the year Drizzt first came into print ), that disliking Drizzt has nothing to do with concern with popularity. Rather if you had to accuse us of something, make it literary snobbishness.

The first thing I outgrew when it came to the story was black and white stories. Stark White Good vs. Pitch Black Evil. By the time I read Drizzt I already realized that a character such as his perfection (moral, even if not otherwise) was hopelessly inhuman, and I never read past the first book. Using the negative racial tendencies of the drow to “foil” his moral perfection is a clever trick but ultimately only makes him more of a Mary Sue.

That’s why I also find disdain for players whose characters mimic him – they, conciously or not, are willing the same perfection into their characters.

I think saying ‘Haters’ unnecessarily corners people into defending an impossible viewpoint (‘why be hatin’ man?’). I don’t hate Drizzt at all*; it’s just that being so young I found his character and his stories completely obsolete.

• The same cannot be said for R.A. Salvatore: I have not forgiven him yet for killing the wookie.


Regardless, WOTC can do what it wants; coincidentally I’ve never bought anything from them in this age of *.pdf and *.torrent.

 

[Daebryn]

\UGH, again.
HOW are these two still alive?!
How many times have these two both escaped "Certain Death" scenarios?!
Just DIE already, so can get cool NEW villians and plots!

Actually, not as many as you seem to think.

Entreri has only really been in one "Certain Death" scenario: When we was hanging unconcious from the cliff at the end of Legacy. At the end of Streams of Silver he escapes into the crowd, in Starless Night he and Drizzt part company below Mithral Hall, and in Silent Blade he believes that he kills Drizzt in a duel and returns to Calimport.

Jarlaxle has never been in a "Certain Death" scenario that I can remember.

• The same cannot be said for R.A. Salvatore: I have not forgiven him yet for killing the wookie.

Actually, that was not his decision. He was told to do it by Lucasbooks. They wanted something to shake up the status quo.

 

[ender_wiggin]

An author should be responsible for the words that he writes.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

This is an April Fool's thing right?

Anywho, I'll be over here celebrating the 30th anniversary of Eclavdra, an actual Drow who lives with other Drow and does Drow stuff, without being a poor man's Elric of Melnibone, bemoaning her outcast fate like something that should have little boxes on her character sheet marking Angst and Pathos.

Also the 22nd anniversary of the death of Sturm Brightblade, a character who actually meant something to the world he lived in.

Sometimes, people don't like a character not because it's 'trendy' to not like the character, but because *they don't like the darn character!* I think my favorite FR novel character is Elaith Craulnobur. He's pretty classy, and, while not a common type (elf who isn't CG), he isn't a freakishly rare one-of-a-kind Emo Elf either.

Coloring outside the lines with special classes, races, powers, artifacts and / or other exceptions to what D&D is actually about is a fun way to liven up a stale game, *after* you've spent years coloring *within* the lines.

Starting out with a 'gimmick' character who breaks all the rules or is more-special-er than anybody elses characters just makes it look like you think the actual game itself is boring, since you can't be bothered to make a character who fits within that setting (or lack the talent to make a compelling character who isn't a speshul exception, last of her race, Chosen by Bob, from a planet of sentient dinosaur Paladins).

Drizz't, like so many 'gimmick' characters is about as 'iconic' a D&D character as Jean Grey or James Bond. Sure, neat character, and a vehicle for some truly *awesome* stories about Menzoberranzan, but special exception characters who don't follow the rules is not actually what D&D is about...

A *human* (or elven, dwarven, halfling, gnome, 1/2 orc, 1/2 elven) Fighter, Ranger or Paladin, like Sturm, Kitiara, Caramon, Tanis, etc. should be able to be a heroic (or tragic) figure. Written well, they should be compelling in and of themselves, not because they are the only member of a race not normally seen, or have special powers, or unique magic items, or the ability to spin really fast while holding two swords and cut down a hundred orcs a round.

Core races, classes, feats, etc. *aren't* boring, if they were, nobody would bother to buy the PHB, they'd all be playing Thri-Kreen Warmind / Duskblade Gestalts. If the writer thinks the races and classes that are the *core* of the game are too boring to use, then perhaps D&D isn't his game, and he should be playing Gamma World or Mutants & Masterminds or something, where unusual abilities and unique circumstances are the order of the day.

This is so, so true.

Surely it can't be that hard to write a good story where the protagonists are only 6th-8th level, don't have all sorts of weird templates or abilities, and don't wield masterwork or magical items, and yet still use some of the recognizable D&D monsters and races?

Why not something like making a ranger an alcoholic ladies' man? Why not give a dwarf serious Vietnam-like flashbacks? How about a warrior who is fascinated by literature and poetry, even as he spends his time hacking bugbears to pieces? A wizard who's dealing with bipolar disorder? A thief who is a master organist and songwriter, more attracted to roguery than the discipline and hard work required to be a bard?

I must confess to deeply resenting those who dismiss fantasy as childish/embarassing/crappy, or those who think gaming fiction sucks by default-Salvatore proved otherwise. At the time, the premise actually was fairly innovative, and it was only the legions of clones and ripoffs that followed that were the problem. Drizzt was a victim of his own popularity, not any inherent flaw in gaming fiction.

Look at Weis and Hickman's Chronicles Trilogy: The flaws in that series were more narrative-deus ex machina moments, throwing out all sorts of interesting parts of the modules, turning characters like Flint and Riverwind into ballast by not giving them any meaningful role-but the protagonists themselves were fairly ordinary as far as D&D characters went. Their characterization was part of the appeal of the modules, and later the novels. Like Set pointed out, they didn't need a bunch of fancy bells and whistles to appeal to readers and players.

 

[Ranger REG]

I will pitch my two cents and say that being part of such a young generation ( I was born the year Drizzt first came into print ), that disliking Drizzt has nothing to do with concern with popularity. Rather if you had to accuse us of something, make it literary snobbishness.

No! Really? I could never picture you that.

Spoiler

Snob.

 

[Set]

Originally Posted by Kae'Yoss
I'm sure that most Drizzt Haters (with the capital H) are closet fanboys!

Ranger REG
No, they're just in the closet.

Of course, while I'm not terribly impressed with Drizz't, I must say that this has been an enlightening look at what sort of fans he attracts.

 

[William drake]

This is an April Fool's thing right?

Anywho, I'll be over here celebrating the 30th anniversary of Eclavdra, an actual Drow who lives with other Drow and does Drow stuff, without being a poor man's Elric of Melnibone, bemoaning her outcast fate like something that should have little boxes on her character sheet marking Angst and Pathos.

Also the 22nd anniversary of the death of Sturm Brightblade, a character who actually meant something to the world he lived in.

Sometimes, people don't like a character not because it's 'trendy' to not like the character, but because *they don't like the darn character!* I think my favorite FR novel character is Elaith Craulnobur. He's pretty classy, and, while not a common type (elf who isn't CG), he isn't a freakishly rare one-of-a-kind Emo Elf either.

Coloring outside the lines with special classes, races, powers, artifacts and / or other exceptions to what D&D is actually about is a fun way to liven up a stale game, *after* you've spent years coloring *within* the lines.

Starting out with a 'gimmick' character who breaks all the rules or is more-special-er than anybody elses characters just makes it look like you think the actual game itself is boring, since you can't be bothered to make a character who fits within that setting (or lack the talent to make a compelling character who isn't a speshul exception, last of her race, Chosen by Bob, from a planet of sentient dinosaur Paladins).

Drizz't, like so many 'gimmick' characters is about as 'iconic' a D&D character as Jean Grey or James Bond. Sure, neat character, and a vehicle for some truly *awesome* stories about Menzoberranzan, but special exception characters who don't follow the rules is not actually what D&D is about...

A *human* (or elven, dwarven, halfling, gnome, 1/2 orc, 1/2 elven) Fighter, Ranger or Paladin, like Sturm, Kitiara, Caramon, Tanis, etc. should be able to be a heroic (or tragic) figure. Written well, they should be compelling in and of themselves, not because they are the only member of a race not normally seen, or have special powers, or unique magic items, or the ability to spin really fast while holding two swords and cut down a hundred orcs a round.

Core races, classes, feats, etc. *aren't* boring, if they were, nobody would bother to buy the PHB, they'd all be playing Thri-Kreen Warmind / Duskblade Gestalts. If the writer thinks the races and classes that are the *core* of the game are too boring to use, then perhaps D&D isn't his game, and he should be playing Gamma World or Mutants & Masterminds or something, where unusual abilities and unique circumstances are the order of the day.

Thank you, thank you for this....and also, this goes beyond the simple dread of those who play Clones of this 2d character, its the fact that he shouldn't have been writen this way in the first place. Its just BAD. NOW, Elric....now we're talkin about celebrating something.

Game On

 

[RedFox]

I will pitch my two cents and say that being part of such a young generation ( I was born the year Drizzt first came into print ), that disliking Drizzt has nothing to do with concern with popularity. Rather if you had to accuse us of something, make it literary snobbishness.

The first thing I outgrew when it came to the story was black and white stories. Stark White Good vs. Pitch Black Evil. By the time I read Drizzt I already realized that a character such as his perfection (moral, even if not otherwise) was hopelessly inhuman, and I never read past the first book. Using the negative racial tendencies of the drow to “foil” his moral perfection is a clever trick but ultimately only makes him more of a Mary Sue.

That’s why I also find disdain for players whose characters mimic him – they, conciously or not, are willing the same perfection into their characters.

I think saying ‘Haters’ unnecessarily corners people into defending an impossible viewpoint (‘why be hatin’ man?’). I don’t hate Drizzt at all*; it’s just that being so young I found his character and his stories completely obsolete.

• The same cannot be said for R.A. Salvatore: I have not forgiven him yet for killing the wookie.


Regardless, WOTC can do what it wants; coincidentally I’ve never bought anything from them in this age of *.pdf and *.torrent.

Agreed, though I'll go one step further and simply say that the novel sucked. The man can't write his way out of a paper bag. Well, that's not strictly true. I read one story in (IIRC) Tales of the Bounty Hunters by Salvatore that was pretty entertaining, but by and large he's a hack.

Then again, I don't read a lot of D&D fiction. I think the only novel so far that I've found genuinely entertaining has been Azure Bonds.

Admittedly I read Salvatore's work in my late twenties rather than early teens, so that may be why I'm so harshly critical of it.