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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7642507" data-attributes="member: 4937">My suggestion is that it's quite possible that if you didn't get into D&amp;D from the era where it was splitting off from wargaming, that you can't possibly be a grogard since there is certainly a generation of players who are older and have an older perspective than you have or even have insight into.&nbsp; From my experience, even the players that did become fans of that new fangled RPG &quot;fad&quot; brought with them a certain sensibility and experience that is distinctive from what prevails in later generations, including based on my impressions what seems to prevail amongst OSR fans.&nbsp;&nbsp; Certainly if I go to a meeting of the local board gaming society, when I'm thinking of assigning the &quot;grognard&quot; to any group, it's the bearded folks in the corner playing a game of &quot;War in the Pacific&quot; that appears to have been going on for longer than the war being simulated did.&nbsp; They have a different perspective than gamers that got into board games after the European board gaming renaissance, and their perspective on things often is observable even when and if they also love games other than wargames.&nbsp; But I can't imagine anyone who grew up on video games really embracing games like Star Fleet Battles or Car Wars, or other highly detailed games which in retrospect where proto-video games meant to run on the player's wetware, and if you don't come from that era then I think you don't get the era of &quot;lonely fun&quot; and obsession with detail and realism that often marked it.Anyone Gary Fine was referring to as a grognard 1983 regardless of whether they were 16 or 40 then is a grognard today, and anyone a member of the culture he was describing in that book - even if not considered a grognard then - certainly has title to the term now I would think.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7642507, member: 4937"] My suggestion is that it's quite possible that if you didn't get into D&D from the era where it was splitting off from wargaming, that you can't possibly be a grogard since there is certainly a generation of players who are older and have an older perspective than you have or even have insight into. From my experience, even the players that did become fans of that new fangled RPG "fad" brought with them a certain sensibility and experience that is distinctive from what prevails in later generations, including based on my impressions what seems to prevail amongst OSR fans. Certainly if I go to a meeting of the local board gaming society, when I'm thinking of assigning the "grognard" to any group, it's the bearded folks in the corner playing a game of "War in the Pacific" that appears to have been going on for longer than the war being simulated did. They have a different perspective than gamers that got into board games after the European board gaming renaissance, and their perspective on things often is observable even when and if they also love games other than wargames. But I can't imagine anyone who grew up on video games really embracing games like Star Fleet Battles or Car Wars, or other highly detailed games which in retrospect where proto-video games meant to run on the player's wetware, and if you don't come from that era then I think you don't get the era of "lonely fun" and obsession with detail and realism that often marked it. Anyone Gary Fine was referring to as a grognard 1983 regardless of whether they were 16 or 40 then is a grognard today, and anyone a member of the culture he was describing in that book - even if not considered a grognard then - certainly has title to the term now I would think. [/QUOTE]

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