Theological Question and The End

[SHARK]

Greetings!

(SHARK smacks forehead!) Thanks Wicht! It was late! It does seem that I reversed them, huh?

My apologies!

You are familiar with my points, though, so that's good!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Cassiel666]

In the beginning was the word...

I am not sure we really want to go there here but it was hardly all the Christian's doing. The septuagint had been complete long before the establishment of the church, testifying to the scriptures the Jewish authorities gave credence to. The opinion of the Sadducees aside, who gave credence only to the books of Moses, the accepted Jewish scriptures and the Christian Old Testament contain identical books.

That is not to say there were not books written by Jews which discussed these things in more details, but such books were not routinely considered scripture.

As regards the former paragraph: I was thinking more of rival Christian factions that had a greater stake in the beadth of religious experience, like Gnosticism/Manicheism. The competitors that orthodox Christianity cut down, in other words. That much, at least, they did on their own.

As to the latter: right.. they weren't considered scripture, like Enoch 1 & 2 are not considered scripture. ? I think that was the point.

So what's this The End all about? I found a short blurb, but as short blurbs so often do, it left the setting with a somewhat cheesey feel. Of course overexplanation can have the same effect but...

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Re: In the beginning was the word...

So what's this The End all about? I found a short blurb, but as short blurbs so often do, it left the setting with a somewhat cheesey feel. Of course overexplanation can have the same effect but...

Post revelation survival (horror) d20 game.

It came out a few years ago, was banned at GenCon, and sort of slipped into obscurity.

A company bought the rights to it and produced a d20 version. They've released the main book, plus one supplement already ("Boston Massacre"). The next source book is due in October, I think.

You play one of "the Meek" -- the people not good enough for heaven, nor bad enough for hell....but strong enough to survive events described in the book of Revelations (the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, etc.)

Basically, God is real. The apocalypse happens. God shuts the doors to Heaven and hell--anyone not already in either place is going to neither. Have fun in the new Eden.

The basic "feel" of the game can be summed up with the following notion: The statement "The meek shall inherit the earth" was not a promise; it was a warning. Poor bastards.

 

[Cassiel666]

Re: Re: In the beginning was the word...

It came out a few years ago, was banned at GenCon, and sort of slipped into obscurity.

You play one of "the Meek" -- the people not good enough for heaven, nor bad enough for hell....but strong enough to survive events described in the book of Revelations (the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, etc.)

Basically, God is real. The apocalypse happens. God shuts the doors to Heaven and hell--anyone not already in either place is going to neither. Have fun in the new Eden.

The basic "feel" of the game can be summed up with the following notion: The statement "The meek shall inherit the earth" was not a promise; it was a warning. Poor bastards.

Amusing that it was banned from GenCon..

What I wonder, though, is what makes this setting different from living in the regular world? I mean, half the people on the planet don't believe in a god or an afterlife anyway, so what really changes when God shows up, scoops 150k people away to paradise, damns a bunch more, then disappears again? Is there any kind of contact between Heaven/Hell/Earth? How bad can the world be if the only people left aren't too good but aren't too bad?--or does the timeframe of the setting allow sufficient time for new villains to be born?

What about magic? Are there sources of power not availible in the real world, and if so, are these a threat to Heaven/Hell? For the Christian god to have abandoned the unborn generations of the future, souls that havn't yet chosen a side, seems harsh.. but I'm not Christian so what do I care? I mean, there is precedent for leaving the irresolute on Earth--some stories have this as the fate of angels who didn't chose sides--but angels don't breed. Or maybe men and women can no longer have children, maybe souls are real and now there is a finite supply, so all children are reincarnated (with or without memories intact?)..

There are a lot of possibilities..

So is there an actual story beyond the day of judgement?

 

[Anabstercorian]

In The End, souls are real. When you die, your soul dies. No afterlife. No reincarnation. Nothing.

That is horror. Knowing the worst thing in the world.

 

[fusangite]

Reading this thread has made me love this message board. It is such a pleasure to see people with a strong textual grounding in biblical myth. Thank you all.

 

[EvilPheemy]

One of the big differences between our world and the setting of The End is that The End occurs after most of the events recorded in Revelations.

God pulls the faithful to Heaven, tosses those who deserve it to Hell, then smacks the Earth about for a while... Sun goes black, moon turns red, rivers run with blood, volcanoes erupt, earthquakes roll across continents, tidal waves the size of skyscrapers...

Real "Wrath of God" type stuff.

So it's not like the characters exist in a post-modern world minus all of those who believe, they exist in a post-modern world where human civilization has been thoroughly destroyed, minus all of those who believe

Post-apocalypse indeed.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Re: Re: Re: In the beginning was the word...

What about magic? Are there sources of power not availible in the real world, and if so, are these a threat to Heaven/Hell? For the Christian god to have abandoned the unborn generations of the future, souls that havn't yet chosen a side, seems harsh.. but I'm not Christian so what do I care? I mean, there is precedent for leaving the irresolute on Earth--some stories have this as the fate of angels who didn't chose sides--but angels don't breed. Or maybe men and women can no longer have children, maybe souls are real and now there is a finite supply, so all children are reincarnated (with or without memories intact?)..

With regards to magic....

The book mentions that the Savage Gods (incarnations of primal force) have re-appeared. No one knows what this means (i.e., magic will be detailed in a later supplement), but there is at least one interesting wrinkle. In this game, God has thrown all pagans into hell. Anyone who practiced magic is gone. So, no one left in The End really has any knowledge of how to worship the Savage Gods....or if they even respond to worship(pers).

There is at least one NPC who is an angel that didn't get back into Heaven in time. He is no longer immortal, but is very powerful and apparently has magic at his disposal.

As for children, here's an excert from the Q+A section of the book:

Q: Can the Meek have children?
A: Yes. The soul is an inseparable part of the body.... The soul is created during copulation, it does not come from outside. This power was given to mankind by God when He created us, and He did not take it back when He withdrew.

 

[Buttercup]

In The End, souls are real. When you die, your soul dies. No afterlife. No reincarnation. Nothing.

That is horror. Knowing the worst thing in the world.

Well, that depends on your belief system doesn't it. If you are an atheist, you already think there is no afterlife. And it probably doesn't horrify you at all.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Well, that depends on your belief system doesn't it. If you are an atheist, you already think there is no afterlife. And it probably doesn't horrify you at all.

But in The End, I believe a major premise is that everyone's belief system has been shaken (in some manner) by the Apocalypse and the subsequent Tribulations. Bascially, if you were an athiest, you were wrong and pretty much have proof that you were wrong. That should shake you up a bit.