They've Fluffed the Fluff Already!

[Siberys]

The first is the story you get when asking Dwarves.

The second is the story you get when asking Giants.

Done.

 

[Agamon]

Nah, I watched Transformers movie instead

See, now that would make me angry.

 

[Wolfspider]

Myths being different depending on who you ask makes sense, sure. The famous D&D example already given is the origin of Gruumsh's one eye.

I don't think, however, that the origin stories of the dwarves from the preview books are being presented in this way; therefore, it's not necessary to make mental contortions in order to justify why these stories are different.

I think that it's either a mistake or (more likely) the story has changed during the development of 4e.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Myths being different depending on who you ask makes sense, sure. The famous D&D example already given is the origin of Gruumsh's one eye.

I don't think, however, that the origin stories of the dwarves from the preview books are being presented in this way; therefore, it's not necessary to make mental contortions in order to justify why these stories are different.

I think that it's either a mistake or (more likely) the story has changed during the development of 4e.

I agree.
I have no problem with this is what a Dwarf would say and that is what a Giant would say. Just put that in the books, or anything to justify the difference. I shouldn't have to figure out that this is the case, in other parts of the books it is explicitly stated when it is a version or myth or legend. But a flat statement that THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED and they are different sucks.
As I said I love the differing myths etc depending on pont of view but that is not how it comes across in the books. And they could mention somewhere in W&M that this is more upto date than R&C. But they don't. It is just shoddy

And yes Tranformers was pretty rubbish.
Oh and Irda, who was the 1/2 orc?

 

[howandwhy99]

I do think that the historical, ingrained setting of AD&D is the marketable brand of D&D. And it does seem like they are leaving that setting behind. And that that's a risk when it comes to the "Harley-Davidson of geekdom" marketing idea. But if they do have better setting designs for new players to more easily navigate, I don't have a problem with it. I still think they should guard their defining as more than just the name and a few SRD-less monsters.

Those expedition books sold well, no? I'm wondering how well other, non-rule related nostalgia products would go over? Harley-Davidson could print their own money by selling leather jackets and motorcycles built from 40 year old designs (in limited quantities). We collectors are a bunch of old farts.

PS: Is Fluff, like Smurf? What the fluffer.

 

[ideasmith]

I hope that the core books use both and tell the GM to decide. After all, every GM's world is different anyway. Even when set in Greyhawk or whatever. Why not make that clear?

 

[Voss]

Now these are 2 entirely DIFFERENT stories, both presented as History & FACT- not Myth, not Legend, not as a possible version. That annoys the hell out of me. Which story is right?

Fun thing. History, fact, myth and legend are all exactly the same thing. Fact and history just have better PR firms.


Seriously though. There are mythological and legendary elements to things that literally happened yesterday, and fact and history involved in the wildest legend.

 

[Minicol]

Is there anyone else out there to whom this really annoys, or am I just too pedantic!
Anyone else picked up other glaring 'errors' of editing/ sticking to a reference?
What do you think the best version is (myself: the first one) and which is the truth?
/RANT COMPLETE

ps I know it doesn't really matter but it is just soooo annoying!

Seriously, after all the talk on sacred cows what did you expect ?

Sacred cows had an advantage of continuity, but were a problem for some authors, as they were limiting their "creative" input.

Now they are creative : they can write whatever they want, and screw consistency out of the window. Plus they can blame anything on the ignorance of illiterate people in a POL setting.

 

[Mighty Veil]

Let's make our own Dwarf myth and use that instead.

El Morando (I'm taking Spanish lessons!) created dwarves after an all-nighter of binge drinking. The Titans asked Senior Morando to pay his tab but he refused! This is why to this day dwarves like to drink beer and are greedy. Eventually Chico Morando was refused into the heavenly pub, due to his unpaid bills. He went looking for his gold and gems; but being a eccentric god, he had hidden and buried his treasure in mountains. This is why treasure is found in dungeons and caves (monsters are just there by accident). He told his children, the dwarves, who were called back then "Shakar-Nakas'qas" (the people folk of the proud), to search for his loot! This is why dwarves like to mine. But the titans were inpatient, so Morando told them his Shakar-Nakas'qas would simply work off the tab. They were sold eventually to the giants from Mui Grande-fey, who used them as slaves since their previous slaves The Githyanki ~!! had escaped with 12 other tribes under the leadership of a Mindflayer named Gith'moses. But that's another story to be explored in Monster Manual II, coming March 2009!

Morando was too drunk to hear their cries. The other tribe of dwarves, the ones not given to the titans. The ones who were digging and minning. They found Morando's lost treasure and called to him. When he didn't answer (because he was past out) they just kept digging. Digging and digging. Until they dug so far they turned into Dueger dwarves and became evil and corrupted and hated Morando for being a drunk. They were no longer one with the Shakar-Nakas'qas. They had become The Goey'Ra'Aaka'Yys (the people who hate Morando because he made us dig and dig and dig), also called the Gray Folk Dwarfs Folk, or Thundarquestalolitas for short.

Then one day the greatest dwarf of all, Billy Dwarf, saw the giants drinking beer and playing poker with gold coins. This made him remember that the Shakar-Nakas'qas enjoyed drinking beer and gold. The revolt started and ended 14 minutes later. After the Shakar-Nakas'qas renamed themselves the Dwarves in Billy's honor. Billy Dwarf did not survive the night, as he choked on his vomit after passing out from drinking too much wine. This is why dwarves drink beer and never wine, except dwarves who are straight edge (they drink tea and never coffee!). Oh, and this why dwarves and giants are enemies... and along the way goblins and orcs managed to piss off the dwarves too. And this is why dwarves and orcs and goblins hate each other.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Worlds and Monsters: Primordials made Titans made Giants; Giants saw the Dwarves that Moradin had made and overwhelmed and enslaved them; Moradin too scared to help Dwarves vs all the Primordials etc; Moradin whispered support to Dwarves during their enslavement; During the God/Primordial war Dwarves rose up against the Giants.

-This is truth. Mind you, I think the first one is better.

New stuff trumps old stuff. This is WoTC, you know. They have been doing updates in there games from day one. -It is the only way to go, if you want to keep developing the game.