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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eric Olson1" data-source="post: 9473765" data-attributes="member: 6975382">As a summary (so we don't have page of repeated statements), I’ll try to break down the arguments {for} and {against} having “fast hands” work with scrolls. I'll try to be fair and represent,  but we all have bias)First, these are the rules as written:* Beginning in 2024, Magic [action] is defined to be one of three subtypes:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use a feature that requires a Magic action to be activated</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use a magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated</li> </ol>* Fast Hands: “…take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.”Argument {for}: the text is general English and any sub-type of magic action should count. Essentially:    As long a magic item is involved, any magic action should count as a “fast hands” bonus action.Argument {against}: The text is deliberate and precise. It resembles magic [action] subtype 3 on purpose.   If the activation of the magic item causes the effect, “fast hands” applies: subtype (3).   Casting a spell while “doing something” with a magic item is still casting the spell – subtype (1). This is a mentally focused spellcasting process, assisted by the item, but not sped up by “fast hands”.  The magic action can’t be both type (1) and (3) because the definition says “or”* Magic items (so far just from the 2024 D&D beyond Uni-unicorn adventure) seem to fall into 2 types:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">“you can <do something> to cast <spell>” -- seems to align with magic [action] type (1)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">“as a magic action <you make some effect happen> -- seems to align with magic [action] type (3)</li> </ol>* Scrolls match magic item type (a) when they state “you read the scroll and cast the spell”Argument {for}: The word “read” counts as “use” for a scroll.Argument {against}: <do something> words like “read” or “expend a charge” are describing conditions, not actions. “Cast the spell” is the magic action. Reading, holding, wearing, expending charges don't take budgeted time.  Plus the PHB says scrolls replace the "prepare in your mind" and "material component" parts of spellcasting.So as it stands:RAW: strict grammar=does not work on scrolls, general grammar=it would workRAI: we just don’t know yet. We only have this verbal summary of “fast hands” by J Craword:"The thief will be able to take a magic item that requires a magic action for activation and thanks to fast hands, activate it as a bonus action." (bold text is slightly different than the PHB rule -- seems to being intent closer to magic type 3)Historically (I may be mistaken here, I skipped from AD&D to 5th):  4th edition allowed scrolls for fast hands and it was a problem. 2014 solved this problem by nerfing ‘magic items’ completely from “fast hands”My opinion is WOC would not restore the problem of 4th edition without plans to control any abuse. Ultimately, give the DM a “tool” to decide which items work and which ones do not work with “fast hands”. Magic items type (a) don’t work and magic items (b) will work. The complete DM will prove my opinion true or false.So.....Will we get a wand that says “expend a charge to cast a fireball” or “as a magic action you cause a fireball ...”As I DM, I could be fine with either interpretation. At Thief level 11, when they understand scrolls – go for it. Maybe even a 1 level dip of wizard. That is fun.If they spend extreme effort creating a build to abuse this…. Then I’ll read the rules strictly.</blockquote>

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