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Thief seems overpowered to this new/old DM
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5476335" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Ok, I'll take a minority viewpoint here.</p><p></p><p>1) The Thief does do ridiculous amounts of damage. Much moreso than any other Striker class. The first level Thief in our game averaged 20.5 points of damage at first level and hit a good 90% of the time.</p><p></p><p>It's not just the damage, it's the fact that for most encounters, the Thief never misses.</p><p></p><p>2) Yes, the Thief does not have any Daily powers. But, he does more damage with his Backstab encounter power than other Strikers do with their encounter powers. So, the Thief does 20 with At Will, 25 with encounters whereas other Strikers do 15 with At Wills, 20 with encounters, and 25 with dailies. And with his ability to hit nearly every time, the first level Thief is averaging in a 6 round encounter (20*5+25)*0.9= 112 damage whereas other first level strikers are closer to (15*5+20)*0.8= 76 damage.</p><p></p><p>He's dropping an average of 3.5 foes per encounter whereas other strikers are dropping 2.4 foes. Dropping foes faster means that the PCs save more resources and are in harms way less.</p><p></p><p>3) The one striker exception to this is the Rogue who has similar damage output. The problem is that the Rogue typically has to be in melee to accomplish this whereas the Thief can stay at range. The low AC of the Rogue gets punished a lot more than that of the Thief.</p><p></p><p>4) The defense issue of the Thief is a bit misleading as well. Yes, the Thief has a relatively low AC. But most rounds, the Thief isn't a target. And even when he is a target, his AC is often within 1 to 3 of other Strikers. He isn't at that huge of a disadvantage considering that about every other round in combat, he's dropping a foe. Foes that come up to attack him in melee typically don't last long.</p><p></p><p>5) The ability to do Sneak Attack damage every turn instead of every round (if the PCs are tactically played well) also puts the Rogue and Thief even higher above many other Strikers in damage per encounter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Overall, the OP's observation is pretty much correct. The Thief does do so much more damage than the other PCs that it is a lot more noticable, especially at first level. As the levels go up, other PCs catch up a little bit because they start getting more encounter and daily powers, but not by much.</p><p></p><p>One way to correct for this is to encourage your controller and defender PCs to take multi-target powers and make sure that the players knows that they are doing nearly as much damage (plus some possible control) against multiple foes than the Thief is doing against one foe. At least on those rounds where these PCs can pull this off.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5476335, member: 2011"] Ok, I'll take a minority viewpoint here. 1) The Thief does do ridiculous amounts of damage. Much moreso than any other Striker class. The first level Thief in our game averaged 20.5 points of damage at first level and hit a good 90% of the time. It's not just the damage, it's the fact that for most encounters, the Thief never misses. 2) Yes, the Thief does not have any Daily powers. But, he does more damage with his Backstab encounter power than other Strikers do with their encounter powers. So, the Thief does 20 with At Will, 25 with encounters whereas other Strikers do 15 with At Wills, 20 with encounters, and 25 with dailies. And with his ability to hit nearly every time, the first level Thief is averaging in a 6 round encounter (20*5+25)*0.9= 112 damage whereas other first level strikers are closer to (15*5+20)*0.8= 76 damage. He's dropping an average of 3.5 foes per encounter whereas other strikers are dropping 2.4 foes. Dropping foes faster means that the PCs save more resources and are in harms way less. 3) The one striker exception to this is the Rogue who has similar damage output. The problem is that the Rogue typically has to be in melee to accomplish this whereas the Thief can stay at range. The low AC of the Rogue gets punished a lot more than that of the Thief. 4) The defense issue of the Thief is a bit misleading as well. Yes, the Thief has a relatively low AC. But most rounds, the Thief isn't a target. And even when he is a target, his AC is often within 1 to 3 of other Strikers. He isn't at that huge of a disadvantage considering that about every other round in combat, he's dropping a foe. Foes that come up to attack him in melee typically don't last long. 5) The ability to do Sneak Attack damage every turn instead of every round (if the PCs are tactically played well) also puts the Rogue and Thief even higher above many other Strikers in damage per encounter. Overall, the OP's observation is pretty much correct. The Thief does do so much more damage than the other PCs that it is a lot more noticable, especially at first level. As the levels go up, other PCs catch up a little bit because they start getting more encounter and daily powers, but not by much. One way to correct for this is to encourage your controller and defender PCs to take multi-target powers and make sure that the players knows that they are doing nearly as much damage (plus some possible control) against multiple foes than the Thief is doing against one foe. At least on those rounds where these PCs can pull this off. [/QUOTE]
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