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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5476537" data-attributes="member: 61155">The first statement might be true, but the second statement doesn't really follow. We had an almost identical situation with my group's first game of 4E - I had a rogue who was ridiculously accurate and did lots of damage - in fact, almost spot-on identical numbers to what you mention, with a strictly PHB1 Rogue. We had a bunch of defenders, a leader, and a warlock rounding out the party - so the rogue got the chance to shine.  At the cost, meanwhile, of being incredibly fragile. Yeah, strikers do lots of damage. The thief definitely isn't alone in this, nor does he outclass other top-tier strikers.  I will admit that, at level 1, Rogues and Thieves tend to have a slight edge over others - not having anything to do with number of encounters powers, but just because they are a bit top-heavy in the bonuses they get from feat selection (such as via Backstabber).  But many other strikers can definitely do comparable damage, and the relatively small difference fades within a level or two.   I'm not entirely certain of these numbers.  An optimized level 1 Rogue has ~20 damage with At-Wills, like the Thief. And, in fact, higher accuracy aside from when Backstab is used. And encounters and dailies that, rather than just raw extra damage, can let him attack multiple targets, daze, blind, etc.  An optimized level 1 Ranger is closer to 20 than 15 damage with At-Wills, and ramps up quickly over the next few levels. Lower accuracy than the rogue (though double attacks helps)... but over 30 damage with an Encounter power, and daily attacks that can give him extra attacks or boost damage throughout the combat.  Barbarians are only a bit past 15 damage with an At-Will, but are looking at 30 damage with an encounter or daily power, and rages can provide a serious buff for an entire combat.  An optimized level 1 Sorcerer is looking at doing 15 damage with At-Wills... but often to multiple targets. Similar multiple targets with Encounters and dailies, or, again, 30 damage dailies to one target.  Of other Essentials strikers, Slayers join in with 20 damage At-wills, or close to 30 damage via Power Strike. Scouts are looking at 20 damage at-Wills, and if really optimized, can crank out 25+ damage.  Warlocks, Monks, Assassins, Avengers, Hexblades... these guys probably clock in closer to the numbers you give, but all have some unique offerings of their own.  Thieves are absolutely good. But so are many other strikers. Thieves, like the other Essentials classes, do so a bit more easily 'out of the gate', but at the cost of some versatility - less ability to inflict conditions, go after multiple targets, etc. Or bring forth truly game-changing daily powers. He's definitely in the top tier of strikers, but he certainly isn't somehow beyond it.   I played a ranged rogue in LFR for quite some time, and had Combat Advantage virtually all the time. That was before Martial Power 2 - these days, the rogue has plenty of options for regularly having CA at range.   But neither does the rogue, if he is being attacked. His AC is generally fine, due to the focus on Dex - but low hp and other low defenses make him fragile.   This is true. But it takes a bit more of a build than found in most level 1 characters to really take advantage of this new capability.</blockquote>

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