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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5482341" data-attributes="member: 2011">The Hungry Spear enhancement was not just created for Twin Strike. It actually gives any melee spear user (e.g. Greatspear) a range capability. That's actually what is was created for.In order to try to catch up to the Thief in damage, you are giving a specific magic weapon to the Dwarven Ranger. Course, you aren't giving a magic weapon to the Thief.Ignoring that.The Hungry Spear enhancement gives the heavy thrown attribute to the weapon, not the light thrown attribute.That means that this weapon uses Strength for ranged attacks, not Dexterity.The gouge is a melee weapon. Just because Hungry Spear gives it range does not change it into a Dex based ranged light thrown weapon.So, Twin Strike can be used with a Hungry Gouge. But, only as a heavy thrown weapon which requires Str, not Dex.So, your 18 Dex Dwarven Ranger with a 14 Str will only have a +5 to hit. If you bump up his Str, then his AC and Reflex suffers.And if he is forced into melee, he cannot use the Gouge with Twin Strike unless he is going to throw it which results in an OA against him.If we give him an 18 Str and a 16 Dex so that he can use this weapon in a worthwhile manner and still have a semi-decent 16 AC and 14 Reflex, he's still not going to head out and do Prime Shot a lot and he still will rarely get Combat Advantage.In this scenario, he does (assuming 3.5 add on a critical):Twin Strike: 18.12125TS + Prime: 19.335TS + CA: 20.53125TS + Prime + CA: 21.71Granted, he should hardly ever get the last two at low level and even Prime Shot is risky with a starting AC of 16. I don't know about your DM, but my DM would eat an AC 16 first level PC who heads into melee to get CA for a ranged attack for lunch.His DPR for using the Gouge in melee is:Without CA: 10.125With CA: 11.625So it he is in a situation where the OA might take him out, he drops his DPR by almost half because he cannot use Twin Strike. The rest of the time he risks an OA to get CA from flank. Chances are, he will not be getting CA too often.Congratulations. With one specific race and one specific magic weapon, you were able to surpass the Thief who did not have a magic weapon or a specific race.Now, let's give a single specific magic weapon to the Thief.How about a +1 Master's Blade Shortsword?DPR 20.125The Thief wins again. Let's make it a Dagger to make sure he can use it at range.DPR 19.175He still wins. He still has 1 better AC. He can hide on alternating rounds. He hits most same level foes 95% of the time with Backstab (which can drive some DMs nuts). The Ranger has an Encounter power with which to catch up DPR against Backstab.And the Dwarf has already used a feat that gives a feat bonus to damage. The Thief still has that option available for a future feat. And damage resistance will be twice as devastating for the Ranger.And the Dwarf loses DPR if he ever wants to use a weapon which is not a Hungry Spear. He is handcuffed into the magic item of the build. The Thief can be any Dex based race and do great. He can use a wide variety of magic weapons.So sure. One can play these types of one trick pony builds to minmax a certain specific At Will power with a certain specific race. That doesn't mean that the Thief's damage isn't overly high to begin with, just that yet again WotC introduced another weapon that is unbalanced. This isn't surprising.</blockquote>

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