Thief, the Dark Project, the RPG?

[Hellzon]

[...]and references to the Great Old Ones!

Eh? Missed that, maybe it's in Deadly Shadows?

What I'd kill for is a map of The City!

Isn't there one in the first Cathedral mission (the name eludes me, but not Return To The Cathedral) in Dark Project? Not annotated or anything, but still. And I think this was discussed at the TTLG forums, not sure if they got far though.

Edit: Yep!

 

[GlassJaw]

I would love to get a thread going on Thief to discuss some ideas about actually running a campaign: books to use, classes, house rules, equipment, etc. Again, I'm sure some of this has been done but I haven't looked too hard yet.

My first thought was to use Grim Tales along with the Grim n Gritty rules but then again, I'm not a big fan of hit points. Even though you have a life meter in the actual game, I think a non-hp system would capture the feel of the setting a lot better.

The magic system would need some tweaks as well. IIRC, in Deadly Shadows, most of the spellcasters have some sort item (like a wand) to cast spells. I forget about the earlier games - it's been a while since I played them.

Aside from the rules, how would you run a Thief campaign? The number of players in the game would be an important factor since the games are solo obviously.

Damn, I have to go back and play the original games again. I wonder how they'll run on newer comps...

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

If I recall correctly, our very own Piratecat did some work on the Thief games. If I am right, maybe he can give us some insight. I pretty much agree with everyone elses sentiments about the Thief games, and a game in that setting would be very cool.

Not quite right. Sagiro and Dr.Rictus (who both play in Piratecat's campaign - played in Dr. Rictus' case) were producers at the company that did Thief. I know there's a thread bumping around here were Dr. Rictus provided some feedback to another person thinking of adapting Thief to d20.

Also, on another note, Malhavoc's new Book of Roguish Luck seems to me to be a must-buy for a concept like this. They even include "dousing arrows" to put out light sources.

 

[Melan]

Pssst, Melan, they're calling your name
I love Thief---it's the only computer game I play. It would make a fabulous tabletop rpg setting, especially if someone would produce licensed miniatures too!

Alas, despite my undying love for the series, and especially its first part (just see my avatar ), I don't have much insight to offer, as I have never run a Thief-inspired tabletop game. I imagine it could work for a smaller group. However, if anyone in the thread is looking for inspiration, Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar tales, especially Ill met in Lankhmar, are a must. These tales very much set the mood for running a sinful fantasy metropolis, and was one of the main influences behind the CRPG*.



*Yes, I consider Thief a CRPG. It is more RPGish than many other games by the same name.

 

[Kemrain]

Eh? Missed that, maybe it's in Deadly Shadows?



Isn't there one in the first Cathedral mission (the name eludes me, but not Return To The Cathedral) in Dark Project? Not annotated or anything, but still. And I think this was discussed at the TTLG forums, not sure if they got far though.

Edit: Yep!

I saw the maps on TTLG, too. I'll just have to wait until they put out a pretty one, andthen steal the heck out of it. all in the spirit of thief, it seems.

If you want the Lovecraft reference, play through the Lost City, and find something that Garrett calls "Creepy." If you missed it the first time around, you'll kick yourself.

- Kemrain the 'Archeologist'

 

[Kemrain]

I would love to get a thread going on Thief to discuss some ideas about actually running a campaign: books to use, classes, house rules, equipment, etc. Again, I'm sure some of this has been done but I haven't looked too hard yet.

My first thought was to use Grim Tales along with the Grim n Gritty rules but then again, I'm not a big fan of hit points. Even though you have a life meter in the actual game, I think a non-hp system would capture the feel of the setting a lot better.

The magic system would need some tweaks as well. IIRC, in Deadly Shadows, most of the spellcasters have some sort item (like a wand) to cast spells. I forget about the earlier games - it's been a while since I played them.

Aside from the rules, how would you run a Thief campaign? The number of players in the game would be an important factor since the games are solo obviously.

Damn, I have to go back and play the original games again. I wonder how they'll run on newer comps...

Bolded the points I wanted to touch.

For Gamesys, I intend to use Ken Hood's Grim N Gritty 3.3 system and Ranger Wickett's Elements of Magic Revised. GnG3.3 is my favorite (Revised isnice, but I want HP to be in the game) and has all the flavor (and incentive to go stealth) that I want. EoMr is great because it is so element/alignment based. I can have the Hammerites throwing around Evoke Law and casting Infuse Metal, while the Pagans can toss about Evoke Chaos, Summon Plant, and Infuse Nature. Hell, the Elemental Mages (The Hand Brotherhood) can toss their spells around, and we even have Live and Death for Necromancers (Azaran the Cruel and the Book of Ash, anyone?) to play with (The Eye will feature prominantly in any game I run in the setting, Thief cannon bedamned.) I can restrict casters to using a Focus (a wand) to get their spells off, but I don't want all of them to do that, so the wands might just be magic items that allow non casters to use spells, while I make the real casters much rarer (Like Victoria, for instance. Like she needs a Wand.)

As for classes, I've been Eyeing the Ultimate Classes on the WotC boards for a while. With a little tweaking, the Rogue and Fighter classes would be terribly useful. (Tons of paths for the Rogue means the tona of Rogues in The City can be a little unique.) also, because there would be so few Core Classes that would be appropriate, I'd be encouraging my players to make Prestige Classes like mad, for their use and for use against them. Low Prereq's, too, so people could get in at 3rd or 4th level (You might want to look at it more as an Advanced Class, at that point.)

As for number of players, I have a playerbase of 2, so, I don't need to worry about that much. Thief can work as a pair just as well as a solo, because it opens up new avenues of thievery and stealth. (The new Splinter Cell has 2 a player LAN CoOp Multiplayer mode that looks rockin'!)

I'd love to set up a discussion of the games and possible plot ideas for this and other games run in the setting.

- Kemrain the Taffer.

 

[grodog]

The concept could also make a good basis for a mini-game. Something designed specifically for one player and one DM would be best.

I always liked the old Wyvern's Claw 1:1 thief scenarios for just that reason.

 

[Kemrain]

Not quite right. Sagiro and Dr.Rictus (who both play in Piratecat's campaign - played in Dr. Rictus' case) were producers at the company that did Thief. I know there's a thread bumping around here were Dr. Rictus provided some feedback to another person thinking of adapting Thief to d20.

Also, on another note, Malhavoc's new Book of Roguish Luck seems to me to be a must-buy for a concept like this. They even include "dousing arrows" to put out light sources.

Thanks for the book idea. I'll check into that. I probably won't be running the game for a while, so, I'll have time to buy the book if it's good.

I think that Dr. Rictus was talking to me, actually.. I posted some Thiefgame ideas a few years back, and worked on it for a while before it petered out, unfortunately. Deadly Shadows got me kicked up, though, and I've been excited about this for a while. the TTLG forums are working on maps and I'm thinking that this might actually be possible. I just wish I had more GMing experience... Maybe I'll make it a solo game for a while. One fo my players has a concept already planned out, so, we could start one on one for a few months, until I had background plot set up and characters established.

I'm working on a Game Wiki, but at the moment it's password protected because I've stolen and edited other people's work without permisson (thus far) for use in my game. Free use is fine, but I can't distrubute without being a jerk, so, that's closed for now. I'm talking to a copyright savvy friend of mine who says to open it regardless, but I can't do that fromwork anyway, so, no link as of yet. (Any advice in this department would be valued.)

- Kemrain the Thief.

 

[darkelfo]

The concept could also make a good basis for a mini-game. Something designed specifically for one player and one DM would be best.

That could work, but it need not be so limited. One criticism of the Thief series is the lack of open ended game play and the repeatative nature of game play. How many variants of 'get in, steal loot and (kill the baddie, find the note, etc)" can you have?

But those limits were largely due to the limits of the game. Your imagination is not so limited. There are tons and tons of plots and stories and intrigues that can play out in the city. Thief 3 addresses some of those issues as well because you can wander all over the city, make alliances, etc.

The mood, the feel, the story and the internal "reality" of the setting are what make it great. A campaign based on the Thief series would not exclusively be "break in and get out" all though that would be tons of fun.

There's plenty of room for other classes too. Wizard, fighters and clerics take prominant roles. With some easy adaption, each of these could become stealthy, if not as invisible as the rogue.

 

[GlassJaw]

GnG3.3 is my favorite (Revised isnice, but I want HP to be in the game)

Do you have a copy of that version? I would much like to take a look. As far as hp's go...eh. Even though you have a life meter in Thief, the whole point is to not get into melee combat. I think a non-hp system would reward and emulate that style of play.

EoMr is great because it is so element/alignment based

Alignment?!?! Bah, I say, BAH!

I definitely wouldn't use alignment in a campaign like this. The great thing about it is that even though there are distinctive factions, you never know where anyone's true allegiance lies. The Builders seem like a very lawful group but there are certainly members that have their own motivations. Some are good, some are certainly evil and probably not even lawful. It's obviouls that the Builders are a lawful organization and the Pagans are chaotic. But their "alignment" is only defined by the organization. Moral ambiguity is one of the attractions to the Thief world IMO.

Even Garrick himself is better without trying to figure out his alignment. He's just....Garrick. 'Nuff said.

Tons of paths for the Rogue means the tona of Rogues in The City can be a little unique.

Another reason why I like Grim Tales. For this style of game, I don't want "tons" of classes - I want options. I like you lose some of the mystique of the setting as soon as everyone within it is defined by a class and set of abilities. Grim Tales gives you an infinite number of combinations and you are only limited by your concept. I also don't want the feel of the game to get bogged down with mechanics.

I'd be encouraging my players to make Prestige Classes like mad

Again, I probably wouldn't. The organization a character or NPC belongs to should be the sole descriptor of someone's abilities. The members of the various organizations vary greatly within each. Why should each Builder have the same prestige class? Again, as soon as each Builder or Pagan gets reduced to a prestige class, some of the shadows get lifted off the setting.

I agree though that the magic system will have to be handled with care. I don't spell burn is necessarily a requirement but has to be extremely rare, limited, and difficult to learn. Most magic is certainly tied to items though. It's very rare that someone uses magic unaided.

I'd almost go so far as to eliminate actual spells completely. When magic is used in Thief, it has a much more "earthy" quality to it. They are more like magical "effects" rather than actual spells (although you could certainly translate existing spells to accomplish this).