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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9276664" data-attributes="member: 7030563">And a party needs no constitution masters at all.  Your argument here is Intelligence is not important because you only have a few Intelligence skills, but then you have no constitution skills at all.  If you need 1 or 2 loremaster that is 20-40% of the average party and unless you have a Wizard or Artificer it is not a given you are going to have that.Constitution checks are less common than intelligence checks and Constitution, like Intelligence, is almost never vital to survival.Also Intelligence is a prime stat for two classes.To be clear I am not saying Constitution is less important than intelligence for every PC or every build.  It isn't and I  have played characters who took a 10 or 12 in Constitution and dumped Intelligence with their worst stat.  What I am saying is when you consider all characters, including those that absolutely need intelligence, Constitution is generally a less imporant (aka weaker) stat.I agree that is  common, but it is also a waste and non-optimal IME.While there are a lot of non-optimal choices people make (like playing any Fighter for instance), most of those subpar choices have legit role play reasons.  This one doesn't.  Investing in Constitution generally just seems to be making a build weaker for no thematic reason.But not an optimal one.Dexterity yes, Constitution no.  Unless you play a class or race that has abilities that use Constitution it is not very useful at all.I have played a number of 1-20 point buy characters, form a variety of races and classes and never had much use for a Constitution above 12 at all.Wisdom is more universally useful than Constitution. and unlike Constitution, Wisdom is often vital for survival both for perception and for Wisdom saving throws.And Constitution is one of these.It is rarely that simple though. 12 on Constitution is ok and easy and there is not much of a downside unless  you have a MAD build. A 14 is a different story though.  On point buy going to a 14 from a 10 is generally going to eliminate 5 points off of another "off stat" and going to a 16 is going to mean 9 points typically.Now if you are playing a Fighter and can dump intelligence, sure it is workable.  If you are a Rogue though you are killing yourself in your primary role.For example:  Your Rogue can go S8 D17 C10 I12 W14 CH14 and start out rocking a +3 Athletics, +5 Stealth, +6 Perception, +3 Investigation, +3 Arcana and +4 Deception that is before races and those only go up from there.  This is while setting your self up for a half feat at level 4 and then by level 10 you can start boosting other stats or take feats to even do better.On the other hand if you put one of those 14s in Constitution you are losing some substantial ability in the skill arena, and you are not really geting much of anything in return.</blockquote>

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