D&D 4E Things You'd Like to See in 4e that haven't been mentioned yet

[hong]

Hexes are just so anime.

 

[KarinsDad]

Hexes are just so anime.

That means that DND 1E was anime since hexes were the preferred (but not only) method in 1E (and, most wargames since the early 60s). Hexes are just flat superior for tactical modeling of combat.

 

[Hussar]

The problem with hexes is exactly what you've pointed to though KarinsDad. Drawing a square room on a hex map is a major PITA. What do you do with all those triangles that don't fit minis. It's bad enough when fantasy cartographers already don't bother drawing their maps to snap to the grid. Yeah, it might not look as pretty, but, when that line is running straight down the center of the 5 foot wide corridor, would it really have killed you to move it 2 1/2 feet to either side? Grr.

Hexes and Dungeons don't go together very well. I don't know why you would say hexes were preferred in 1e considering every dungeon map was drawn on squares. It was only overland maps that got hexes and you don't fight at that scale.

 

[hong]

Well, since dungeons are (mostly) contrived locations anyway, there's no reason why they couldn't have junctions at 60deg angles instead of 90deg.

Right angles are so videogamey.

 

[Nifft]

That means that DND 1E was anime

D&D 1E was manga, mang.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Doug McCrae]

That means that DND 1E was anime

Correct. DnD 1e is a subset of everything and, as we have learned, everything is anime.


PS Chase rules.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

13) Make Take 20 random in some way. As is, a PC either has a 0% chance of success or a 100% chance of success. That just seems inherently wrong for a game mechanic. The PC cannot have a "bad day" or "brain fart" when taking 20.

Doesn't Taking 20 already account for a "bad day" or "brain fart" in it's assumption that "you fail many times before succeeding"? Or does that not cover it entirely?

 

[KarinsDad]

The problem with hexes is exactly what you've pointed to though KarinsDad. Drawing a square room on a hex map is a major PITA.

It's typically a piece of cake.

Just draw a square. Ignore the hex lines. If a hex is 50% or more visible, a medium or smaller creature can fight from it.

That is so super simple.

Want an irregular shaped room? Just draw it.

The problem you are discussing is totally within your own frame of reference and has nothing to do with the game system.

Why can't rooms be 18'x27' instead of 20'x25'?

Because the game system designers didn't show how easy it is to do something outside a 5'x5' mentality and they trained an entire generation of RPG players to "stay within the lines".

How lawful!

Hexes and Dungeons don't go together very well. I don't know why you would say hexes were preferred in 1e considering every dungeon map was drawn on squares. It was only overland maps that got hexes and you don't fight at that scale.

I was referencing the 1E DMG, but yeah, I think you are correct that a lot of the 1E adventure maps were squares.


Squared off dungeons? Who squares off a dungeon?

Caverns are not square. Mines are not square.

Only civilized "rooms" should have geometric shapes.

What about the rectangular room that is 45 degrees off the square room? Same issue with a square grid.

You yourself pointed out that sometimes, the lines end up 2.5 feet from the grid.

Square grids gain the system nothing significant. They do, on the other hand, create game mechanic issues that do not need to exist at all.

 

[KarinsDad]

Doesn't Taking 20 already account for a "bad day" or "brain fart" in it's assumption that "you fail many times before succeeding"? Or does that not cover it entirely?

But, you always succeed. Always.

Unless you always fail. Always.


If one plays a computer program in chess on level 4, does he always succeed when on level 5 he always fails?

Life isn't like that. It's a terrible model.


Take 20 should be random in some way. For example, D6+15. Good high rolls which represent being careful and taking your time, but not always a 20. One always does well (to represent time and care being done), but does not always do his best. JMO.

Edit: changed D6+14 to D6+15 since I think that is easier to remember and it's ok to get a 21, similar to a circumstance bonus. Even D10+10 would be ok since a DM should be putting DCs into the game which are achievable by the PCs. Difficult, but achievable. Otherwise, why put them into the game at all?

 

[Nifft]

But, you always succeed. Always.

Unless you always fail. Always.

You're ignoring the +2/+4 or -2/-4 "good day" or "bad day" adjustment imposed by the DM. Try again tomorrow, your modifier may change.

Cheers, -- N

PS: IMHO, "taking 20" is a meta-game convenience for players. It should not be taken as simulationist.