This is... disturbing.

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

It's just a little disturbing...

So - I'm in a relatively new campagin using DnD 3.5, set in FR.

I'm playing a sun elf, focusing on an artificer concept, creation of items, etc.

I'm only first level, but knowing the game is lethal and the GM is a rules lawyer, I'm already sounding him out on magic items.

One quirk of my character is a disdain for personal weaponry. So, rather than buy a crossbow, I inquire as to costs of creating a headband of 'launch bolt'.

Now, launch bolt is a 0th level spell in the Magic o' Faerun. It essentially is a spell that closely duplicates a crossbow. Something like 'Caster can launch one crossbow bolt up to 100' + 25'/2 lvls with a ranged attack roll'. Pretty minor stuff.

Till my GM comes back with the following:

Headband of Unlimited Bolt - Command Word activated Wondrous Item
Prerequisites: CL 15, Craft Wondrous, Launch Bolt Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Eschew Materials
Creation Price: 300 gp & 24 XP


It's disturbing, I tell you. Did he even bother to read the guidelines??? By my own calcuations:

0th spell counts as 1/2 for calculating, so it's
1/2 spell level * Caster Level 1 * 1800 gold pieces = 900 gp retail, or 350 gp + 36 xp.

I know he's right because he's the gm. But if a 0th level spell, command word activated wondrous item requires CL 15th to make - should I just hang up my hat as an artificer and change characters or suffer through??


What would you do?

 

[Epametheus]

He pulled that CL 15 right out of the Abyss. The Caster Level of an item isn't actually the required caster level (3E, anyways; maybe they changed that in 3.5); it's just the normal caster level of a generic copy of that item.

Look at the Circlet of Blasting as an example of an item kinda like what you're after.

Circlet of Blasting, Minor: On command, this simple golden headband projects a blast of searing light (3d8 points of damage) once per day.
Faint evocation; CL 6th; Craft Wondrous Item, searing light; Price 6,480 gp.
Circlet of Blasting, Major: On command, this elaborate golden headband projects a blast of searing light (5d8 maximized for 40 points of damage) once per day.
Strong evocation; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Maximize Spell, searing light; Price 23,760 gp.

Anyways, your DM may well be one of the worst kinds of rules lawyers -- a rules lawyer that doesn't actually understand the rules.

I have no clue where he got the idea that a simple command-word activated item would require Silent Spell and Still Spell.

Being an artificer is fine. Your DM sounds rather dubious, though.

edit: Why the heck does the edit page take about 20 minutes to load?!

 

[dcollins]

Why he added in all those Metamagic feats (thereby, I think, pumping up the Caster Level) is very unclear and doesn't resemble any core magic items I'm familiar with. Why that was done while the price seemed to go down is a further point of strangeness.

Bad judgements like this are part of why I say DMs are better off by default saying "only craft items detailed in the rulebooks" ( www.superdan.net/dndfaq3.html ) Consider the minor circlet of blasting and see if you'd be willing to pay that price for that level of effect. Otherwise, look at a wand of the spell in question.

The Caster Level of an item isn't actually the required caster level (3E, anyways; maybe they changed that in 3.5)...

Not so, by the written rules. As Monte Cook said regarding 3.5E, "Caster level is still a prerequisite for magic item creation." More commentary on the issue is here: www.superdan.net/dndfaq2.html

 

[The Souljourner]

Your DM is a rules lawyer? Don't you have to know the rules for that to be the case? Hmm.. guess not, but still.... The first thing I though was "This DM is obviously not very experienced." Feel free to try to educate him as gently as you can, but I'm guessing that hanging up the artificer idea is a good one.

-The Souljourner

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I don'T have my books with me, but what are the actual components of Launch Bolt? Is it V? V,S? V,S,M? V,S,M,F,X,$?

AR

 

[Senior Bobo]

Headband of Unlimited Bolt - Command Word activated Wondrous Item
Prerequisites: CL 15, Craft Wondrous, Launch Bolt Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Eschew Materials
Creation Price: 300 gp & 24 XP

What would you do?

What's truly disturbing is that he's required Still Spell, Silent Spell and Eschew Materials for it. That sounds to me like he hasn't completely read the item creation rules and just went by how he thought it should work. That alone puts the item at 6th level minimum to have all those feats and you'd have no other item creation feats except scribe scroll. Your 'artificer' would have more metamagic feats then item creation feats.

I'd ask him up front. You want to play an artificer. If it's gonna be impossible for you to make items, you should know now and not after you pick your next 4 feats.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I don'T have my books with me, but what are the actual components of Launch Bolt? Is it V? V,S? V,S,M? V,S,M,F,X,$?

AR

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I don'T have my books with me, but what are the actual components of Launch Bolt? Is it V? V,S? V,S,M? V,S,M,F,X,$?

AR

V & S

Oh yea - and btw - you have to be able to cast 8th level spells and give up an 8th level spell slot in order to use the item...

Sheeeeesh. The strange thing is, he is an experienced DnD GM - just not in 3rd edition, evidently.

I'm pretty sure he lumped in the metamagic feats for the reason stated. All of them together help explain the CL pre-req, but not the fullness of it.

Oh, and get this, we were warned when designing our characters that this was a fairly lethal campaign - that luck and skill would be required to make it to 7th level. So I guess my headband of bolt launching is out the window...

Were my calculations correct, at least?


As for the minor circlet - I'd probably be willing to pay the cost to make it... However, this is a MUCH more minor item...


In essence, I wanted to turn my characters personality quirks a little more real... While 'Galon' wouldn't choose to use a crossbow, he would choose to 'create' a headband that launched a crossbow bolt at people.

I was actually willing to pay the 25 or 35xp to stay in character and NOT buy the crossbow for 20 gp.

Now how does that translate to a 15th level mage wanting to shoot crossbows around??

 

[Epametheus]

Actually, is he a rules lawyer, or is he a control freak? Those aren't the same thing, and the latter is far worse than the former.

And yes, your calculations look fine. Your character concept probably won't work in this guy's campaign, though.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I know he's right because he's the gm. But if a 0th level spell, command word activated wondrous item requires CL 15th to make - should I just hang up my hat as an artificer and change characters or suffer through??

What would you do?

I would talk to the DM and helpfully try to explain the rules. If he shows signs of being disgruntled at my explanations, then I would ditch the idea of crafting anything not listed in the DMG (or whatever sourcebooks he is using). You may have to cook up a completely new character concept.

A running battle will just suck the fun out of the game for both you and the DM. Regardless of his DMing merit, it is as much your job to keep the DM happy as it is for the DM to do the same for you.