Thorny issues

[Eccles]

I've had a few dodgy rules moments in recent weeks, and come seeking clarity.

1. Phantasmal Killer. Nothing specific. It just troubles me.

2. Hide Skill. How do you justify hiding when there's nothing to hide behind? In the rulebook, there's nothing to stop you, but it makes no sense to me.

3. Evasion. Can it always be used? A rogue can't be flat footed, and could theoretically therefore evade a fireball in his/her sleep. Don't get it.

4. Divine Might. The name suggests strength, but the rules applications led one PC to apply the bonus to his Searing Light spell. I disallowed this at the time, but was I right or wrong?

5. the Divine Oracle prestige class. I raised this one before, and people agreed with me. But I still feel mean for not allowing one PC the benefits of this class if he never casts any divinatory magics.

6. There is no Number 6.

7. This number intentionally left blank.

 

[Len]

1. Phantasmal Killer is supposed to trouble you. Read the spell description.

2. The rules say you need either cover or concealment to hide. Concealment means for example "hiding in the shadows", which makes sense to me. You can turn your back, pull your grey cloak around you, etc. Heck, IRL I've hidden from my 5yo niece just by standing still, in a situation where a DM wouldn't have even granted me a hide check!

3. I'll just refer you to the endless discussion about "do you get a reflex save when you're asleep?"

4. Dunno.

5. Ceci n'est pas un réponse.

7. Yes.

So there you go, plenty of clarity, until the next person posts and gives you different answers.

 

[Sejs]

2: You need cover or concealment to hide. So you do need something to hide behind, or for it to be dark/foggy/etc. Unless you have the Camoflage or Hide In Plain Sight ability.

3: *shrug* Assuming you're the DM, just rule how you feel makes sense. Personally I don't even let people make reflex saves while they're asleep, let alone evade stuff. Heck with what the rules may say, you're -asleep-, you arn't dodging a single dang thing.

4: Call it "God Makes Me Cool" then.

5: Maybe it's a character being a dedicated diviniations caster, maybe it's the character's god letting the character see the future. There's enough wiggle room to do it however you feel would be most appropriate for your game.

 

[Pax]

I've had a few dodgy rules moments in recent weeks, and come seeking clarity.

1. Phantasmal Killer. Nothing specific. It just troubles me.

Yeah. I hate "you get two saves to avoid this spell" tricks, where nothing balances the spell in the other direction.

2. Hide Skill. How do you justify hiding when there's nothing to hide behind? In the rulebook, there's nothing to stop you, but it makes no sense to me.

Not true. You have to have some concealment or cover in order to hide, unless you have the class ability "Hide in Plain Sight". PHB v3.5, page 76:

You need cover or concealment (see pages 150-152) in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

3. Evasion. Can it always be used? A rogue can't be flat footed, and could theoretically therefore evade a fireball in his/her sleep. Don't get it.

Yes - well, ALMOST yes. The rogue must be in Light or NO armor, and must not be helpless (if you're tied up, you can't use Evasion). It would be reasonable to houserule that a Rogue denied his dexterity bonus to AC (somehow, despite the rogue's Uncanny Dodge), is also denied the benefit of Evasion. It's not in the RAW, but it'd make reasonable sense.

4. Divine Might. The name suggests strength, but the rules applications led one PC to apply the bonus to his Searing Light spell. I disallowed this at the time, but was I right or wrong?

Complete Warrior's 3.5 update to Divine Might reads:

Divine Might [Divine]
Prerequisites: Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack.
Benefit: As a free action, spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts to add your Charisma modifier to yoru weapon damage for 1 full round.

So, your ruling was entirely righteous; Searing Light is not a weapon, and so, Divine Might cannot give a bonus to damage. I suppose a generous DM might see fit to allow it to be applied to "weaponlike spells" (Flame Blade, Thunderlance, etc).

5. the Divine Oracle prestige class. I raised this one before, and people agreed with me. But I still feel mean for not allowing one PC the benefits of this class if he never casts any divinatory magics.

And you're well within your rights to do so. ALL Prestige Classes are subject to GM approval as a final (unlisted) prerequisite. If you, the GM, don't think the character has demonstrated the sort of behavior that you, the GM, in your sole authority have determined is required of a character before they can take levels in a given prestige class ... then the character doesn't qualify for that class, and that's that.

The PC in question is perfectly able to begin leaning more and more into the casting of actual divination spells. He could then, at a later date, arguably claim to have MET your last stated prerequisite for the class. IF he doesn't want to do so, then obviously, he doesn't deserve to be allowed to take levels in the class. ^_^

 

[JimAde]

What's wrong with Phantasmal Killer? Is it that it's too powerful/too wimpy or you just don't like the special effect?

Pax: Yes, you get two saves against it, but if you fail them both you DIE. It's only 4th level. I haven't run into it much but it seems reasonably well-balanced to me.

 

[Camarath]

3. Evasion. Can it always be used? A rogue can't be flat footed, and could theoretically therefore evade a fireball in his/her sleep. Don't get it.

You can not use Evasion while sleeping because you do not gain the benefit of evasion while you are helpless and you are helpless while sleeping.

 

[Cheiromancer]

You can not use Evasion while sleeping because you do not gain the benefit of evasion while you are helpless and you are helpless while sleeping.

That sounds right. Under the text of the sleep spell it says "Sleeping creatures are helpless." And the glossary definition of helpless (PHB 309) confirms it:

helpless: Paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconcscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus. An attacker can use a coup de grace against a helpless target.

The evasion ability description also states that if the rogue is unconscious, she can't use evasion. And sleep is the most common cause of unconsciousness, I think.

So while I'm not sure if the rogue would be allowed a reflex save at all, I am sure that if she did it would be with a -5 dex penalty, and that evasion wouldn't apply.

 

[Len]

You can not use Evasion while sleeping because you do not gain the benefit of evasion while you are helpless and you are helpless while sleeping.

Oops, you're right, I missed that.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

5. Ceci n'est pas un réponse.

une réponse. "réponse" is feminine

1. Phantasmal Killer. Hm. A lower-level instand-death spell, "balanced" by two saving throws. It's an illusion, but it's also a fear effect. Can't say that I like that spell too much either.

2. Hide has been covered.

3. Evasion can't be used if there isn't enough space (2.5' X 2.5' or less) to move about.

4. ...

5. ...

6. Are you sure? I'm positive I saw something...

7. eh.

 

[AGGEMAM]

une réponse. "réponse" is feminine

Hint: In both french and german words ending with an 'e' are generally feminine words.