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Thoughts on charging for game table "miniatures"
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<blockquote data-quote="Raloc" data-source="post: 3946866" data-attributes="member: 28093"><p>When I heard about 4e, I was somewhat dismayed that all ~50+ of my various books would be practically obsolete, or at the very least, out dated. However, I quickly overcame that disappointment when I heard about the software (what can I say, firstly I'm a game developer, so I like software, secondly, most of my group is spread across Europe, so we use online PnP tools almost exclusively (save the time we met up in Geneva, Switzerland and played IRL, which was much less RP-goodness)). </p><p></p><p>I figured, "Finally, we have a polished, sanctioned piece of kit from WotC to use for net PnP. Now I won't have to bother writing my own vtabletop." I saw one of the videos of the "v-minis" and was pretty excited, despite the near-loss of serveral hundred dollars worth of books (well, technically I can still use them of course, but there are some good rule changes in 4e, and it still *feels* like they're obsolete, even if they aren't). </p><p></p><p>This past week I decided to check out the state of the 4e union, so to speak, and see what the news was. Mostly nothing special, then I started looking more into the D&DI stuff, and found some info that seemed to invalidate my assumptions about it that 1) you'd just get the software with your books, possibly with a key (wrong of course, it's some sort of online app that you have to <strong>subscribe</strong> to) and 2) it'd include a base set of stuff from the core books (wrong, you apparently have to pay for <strong>random v-minis</strong> and pay for duplicates). </p><p></p><p>Now, when I heard about 4e from ENWorld, I told my group. A mixed reaction was had by all, but I took it upon myself to spread the word that we'd have some better software to play future games with. Excitement throughout the group (8+ players that usually play a couple of concurrent campaigns) spread and everyone now is looking forward to 4e in general, and the tools in particular.</p><p></p><p>So I find out that WotC is basically screwing their customers in the worst possible way. As a game developer, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they expect us to pay for "random" packs of v-minis in the first place, and that you have to pay for each <strong>instance</strong> through this system as well. So no giant battle of orcs, since you only got 3 in your 20 packs of v-minis, which <strong>only</strong> cost you some $500+. Any game artist will tell you it takes about the same amount of time to make any given 3d model, especially without animations (not sure if those will be there, but given their abhorrent pricing model, I somehow doubt it). Thus there is absolutely <strong>no</strong> damned reason to have "random" minis, and limiting it to a single instance is freaking insane. This smacks of serious betrayal, and anyone that understands the basics of computers knows that it's completely arbitrary.</p><p></p><p>There is not a single chance in hell that anyone in my group will even remotely consider playing 4e due to this. It makes some sense for MTGO, but for D&D it's just insulting. If WotC doesn't reconsider this position, I personally (and thus, being the DM and the other DM being cheap, our players) will never buy a single 4e book, or probably any D&D related products in times to come. I wish it were not so, but I feel I have very little choice.</p><p></p><p>Not to mention the fact that if you go pay $500+ for your 3 orcs (and tons of other duplicates, yay /sarcasm), and you cancel your D&DI sub, or WotC willy-nilly stops supporting it because they screwed enough customers over to stop making a profit, bam, you're out all your money without a single avenue of compensation.</p><p></p><p>What's next? Are they going to have every <strong>player</strong> have to pay for the random v-minis, and have the same ones to play in a game together? "Oops, you don't have monster #231, please buy 20 more boosters and cross your fingers!" This stuff is freaking ridiculous.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raloc, post: 3946866, member: 28093"] When I heard about 4e, I was somewhat dismayed that all ~50+ of my various books would be practically obsolete, or at the very least, out dated. However, I quickly overcame that disappointment when I heard about the software (what can I say, firstly I'm a game developer, so I like software, secondly, most of my group is spread across Europe, so we use online PnP tools almost exclusively (save the time we met up in Geneva, Switzerland and played IRL, which was much less RP-goodness)). I figured, "Finally, we have a polished, sanctioned piece of kit from WotC to use for net PnP. Now I won't have to bother writing my own vtabletop." I saw one of the videos of the "v-minis" and was pretty excited, despite the near-loss of serveral hundred dollars worth of books (well, technically I can still use them of course, but there are some good rule changes in 4e, and it still *feels* like they're obsolete, even if they aren't). This past week I decided to check out the state of the 4e union, so to speak, and see what the news was. Mostly nothing special, then I started looking more into the D&DI stuff, and found some info that seemed to invalidate my assumptions about it that 1) you'd just get the software with your books, possibly with a key (wrong of course, it's some sort of online app that you have to [b]subscribe[/b] to) and 2) it'd include a base set of stuff from the core books (wrong, you apparently have to pay for [b]random v-minis[/b] and pay for duplicates). Now, when I heard about 4e from ENWorld, I told my group. A mixed reaction was had by all, but I took it upon myself to spread the word that we'd have some better software to play future games with. Excitement throughout the group (8+ players that usually play a couple of concurrent campaigns) spread and everyone now is looking forward to 4e in general, and the tools in particular. So I find out that WotC is basically screwing their customers in the worst possible way. As a game developer, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they expect us to pay for "random" packs of v-minis in the first place, and that you have to pay for each [b]instance[/b] through this system as well. So no giant battle of orcs, since you only got 3 in your 20 packs of v-minis, which [b]only[/b] cost you some $500+. Any game artist will tell you it takes about the same amount of time to make any given 3d model, especially without animations (not sure if those will be there, but given their abhorrent pricing model, I somehow doubt it). Thus there is absolutely [b]no[/b] damned reason to have "random" minis, and limiting it to a single instance is freaking insane. This smacks of serious betrayal, and anyone that understands the basics of computers knows that it's completely arbitrary. There is not a single chance in hell that anyone in my group will even remotely consider playing 4e due to this. It makes some sense for MTGO, but for D&D it's just insulting. If WotC doesn't reconsider this position, I personally (and thus, being the DM and the other DM being cheap, our players) will never buy a single 4e book, or probably any D&D related products in times to come. I wish it were not so, but I feel I have very little choice. Not to mention the fact that if you go pay $500+ for your 3 orcs (and tons of other duplicates, yay /sarcasm), and you cancel your D&DI sub, or WotC willy-nilly stops supporting it because they screwed enough customers over to stop making a profit, bam, you're out all your money without a single avenue of compensation. What's next? Are they going to have every [b]player[/b] have to pay for the random v-minis, and have the same ones to play in a game together? "Oops, you don't have monster #231, please buy 20 more boosters and cross your fingers!" This stuff is freaking ridiculous. [/QUOTE]
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