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Thoughts on charging for game table "miniatures"

zoroaster100

First Post
After the various hints from WOTC that they are considering charging for virtual "miniatures" for the Digital Initiative virtual game table, my first reaction was to decide that I won't be signing on to pay for a monthly charge if it doesn't give full functionality except at constant additional costs to have the right "miniatures".

After calming down from my initial anger at the disclosure of such plans for charging for virtual miniatures, I came to think what kind of charging scheme might be acceptable to me as a customer:

1) Paying for use of the virtual game table gives you access to virtual miniatures for all basic monsters in the Monster Manual One and to at least two or three miniatures for each gender/race/class combo in the Player's Handbook One.

2) The extra couple of dollars charged for electronic supplement for each new Monster Manual beyond Monster Manual One gives you access to an electronic miniature for each monster in the new manual you have purchased (so you can use all the new monsters you've just added to your campaign in the virtual game table).

3) A couple of extra dollars paid for when purchasing a case of a new set of plastic WOTC miniatures unlocks use for you of a set of identical virtual miniatures for the virtual game table.

4) A couple of extra dollars paid when purchasing a WOTC adventure unlocks for you a set of virtual miniatures for characters and monsters unique to the adventure.

5) Occasional offerings of unique characters and monsters are made available for separate purchase.

6) WOTC allows 3rd party publishers and fans to create their own virtual miniatures that can be easily imported into the virtual game table by monthly subscribers, so that third party publishers that publish their own monster manuals and adventures can also offer virtual miniatures for the monsters and characters in their products.

This would maintain for games on the virtual game table the open ended experience available now for in-person games where one can use art, plastic miniatures and metal miniatures for a virtually limitless flexible D&D experience with WOTC and third party products, for a small additional cost.

Otherwise, if you can only play Orc & Pie type basic adventures on the game table unless you spend an arm and a leg for each additional monster or character you want to use, the virtual game table becomes not worth the trouble.
 

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Darkwolf71

First Post
Before I rant: As I understand it, you will get 'token' type markers to use with the regestration of the Monster Manual. So, you shouldn't actually 'need' virtual minis to play. (Unless that has changed since the GamerSteve interview.)

Now, for the ranting...
I already think it is a ridiculous rip off that I have to pay money for 'random' plastic minis. I purchase fewer and fewrer boxes with each set that comes out, instead I watch ebay or my FLGS and pick up what I need individually.

If WotC thinks I'm going to pay money, no mater how much/little, for random virtual minis they're absolutly flippin insane! For this reason, I have absolutley no desire to run any games on the virtual table. Play them maybe, but no way I'll run them.

Grrrrrrr.....
 

Stoat

Adventurer
I've been gaming almost exclusively online for about a year, and I've purchased a number of virtual tokens from Four Ugly Monsters. It takes time and talent to create a nice-looking picture, and I'm not averse to paying for it.

That said. Virtual tokens from FUM are cheap. Cheap. 40 tokens from FUM cost about 5 bucks. I expect DDI tokens to cost more, because they should be 3D, but they shouldn't cost a whole lot more.

Further, the virtual tokens I'm used to using can be cloned and duplicated in-game. In other words, if I buy 1 orc token, I can copy it ten times on the VTT and have 10 orcs for the PC's to fight. I think DDI tokens ought to work the same way. I don't want to buy 20 different virtual goblins just to set up a quick encounter.

Finally, I can't fathom random virtual minis making WotC any money. I understand Magic Online works that way, but I don't think DDI will support the same model. Certainly, I can't imagine paying for random virtual minis myself.

I doubt WotC will let 3d Parties sell virtual DDI minis, and I don't blame them.
 

Riley

Legend
Supporter
THE ESSENCE OF THIS POST:
I agree with zoroaster100's original post. Zoroaster has some really, really good ideas there. However, as Stoat has commented, the miniatures do need to be infinitely cloneable.

I love (the ideas of) 4e, and I want to buy into the DDI, but the subscription sounds increasingly like a way to empty my wallet while giving me very little in return. This is especially true of virtual tokens, and paying for random virtual minis.

THE LONGER, SLIGHTLY RANTY, BUT VERY SINCERE VERSION (for Scott Rouse, or any other WOTC employee who might read this):
The idea of paying for random virtual minis is is the one and only thing that I think WOTC has gotten wrong in their 4e plans, and I really want them to change their minds. Because I want the Virtual Tabletop to be cool.

I am quite geeked about 4e as a paper-and-pencil product, and I've already ordered the rules, real-world minis, and adventures. I was also initially sure I was going to buy into the DDI subscription, but WOTC is not making it easy for me.

Dungeon and Dragon online have been a disappointment thus far. I kinda liked the Demonomicon, and the article on why people might follow an evil god, but that's about it. To win me over (and I'm normally a very easy sell for D&D products), WOTC is either going to have to put a whole lot more interesting material into those magazines, or else the virtual tabletop is going to have to be pretty frikkin cool.

A 3-D tabletop with 2-D tokens is NOT "pretty frikkin cool." I would consider paying a reasonable fee for permanent access to sets of infinitely cloneable virtual minis, much as I am willing to pay for an expansion set to a computer game. However, paying for random virtual minis, or buying individual copies of virtual minis, isn't going to work for me.
 
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KingCrab

First Post
Darkwolf71 said:
Now, for the ranting...
I already think it is a ridiculous rip off that I have to pay money for 'random' plastic minis. I purchase fewer and fewrer boxes with each set that comes out, instead I watch ebay or my FLGS and pick up what I need individually.

I also think it was a horrible idea to release -only- random miniature boosters. I ended up doing all my miniatures shopping on e-bay instead of buying directly from WotC. Had they released them at greater cost, either individually or in set packs, I would have spent a lot.

Still their minis seemed to sell well enough (to other gamers.) If they try to do the random virtual thing, I don't think they will be very sucessful.
 

reutbing0

First Post
Riley said:
THE ESSENCE OF THIS POST:
I would consider paying a reasonable fee for permanent access to sets of infinitely cloneable virtual minis, much as I am willing to pay for an expansion set to a computer game. However, paying for random virtual minis, or buying individual copies of virtual minis, isn't going to work for me.

I have to agree with Riley here. I don't mind paying for real randomized plastic; the collectible aspect is part of the appeal. However, paying for randomized virtual minis is a bit too much.

The flat subscription fee for DDI will be $9.99 so I might pay:
-$5 for the monsters in a volume of a Monster Manual/Big Campaign Setting Book
-$2-4 for the monsters in an adventure/regional sourcebook
-$10 for all the monsters in a D&D Miniatures set. No randomization!
 
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Kunimatyu

First Post
i really hate the 4e random virtual minis idea. It's easily my least favorite idea, and dangerous too, because WotC needs to get people hooked on Insider, and that's a huge turnoff.

There are all kinds of clever ways to get around it if they need to, but if they just straight up charge for virtual minis out the door, Insider stands a good chance of not working, and it's easily the most volatile part of 4e.
 

Wolfspider

Explorer
As much as we may complain about the idea here, it seems to have worked very well (in other words, profitably for WotC) with the virtual Magic cards.

If it will make money, they will do it.
 

Emirikol

Adventurer
This is my off-end remark (directed in random rock-throwing direction to hit someone guilty):
the game went from 3-D miniatures, to 2-D paper tabletops with bad mini's and pogs, back to 3-D miniatures and now is going to 0-D (zero-D) computer screens...ack..the limitations of looking at a dinky little screen really turn me off compared to being able to see and feel a whole gaming table (I'm a tactile kind of person as opposed to visual or auditory kind of person.

Dinky little computer screens, no matter how good the graphics really make D&D feel "small" in my opinion. For those of you with projectors, would that help?

jh
 

KingCrab

First Post
Wolfspider said:
If it will make money, they will do it.

If it will make money, and they see it will make money, then they will do it. They will probably do some research to find out what people really will pay for. I don't think many will pay for random virtual D&D minis.
 

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