Thoughts on rituals

[UngainlyTitan]

Or what is WoTC`s obsession with the 10 minute ritual. I really like the idea of rituals and feel that there are very genre appropiate, however, in D&D spells overshadow rituals there is usually a spell that covers any ritual. So, I would prefer if there were rituals that were not covered as spells.

In 4e. however. rituals were bit on the expensive side at least at low levels and money to spend on rituals tends to compete with items. Also WoTC never made any evocative use of rituals in published adventures.

So while I like that rituals are in in D&D Next I am not sure about the implementation. Some are on spells that are usefull aanyway. I can see some as a good way to see spells put to use that would otherwise not be memorised, unless scroll maaking is easy. I hope the traditional scroll does not make an appearance.

In my opinion though the extra cost and casting time will be off putting to many. I think that rituals (out side some major plot changing effects) should be castable in rounds and in combat. Protecting the wizard while he/she tries to get off a ritual is a common genre trope and should be available to the players. Would be 1 round per spell level be more appropiate?

Another notion I had is ritual elements. Say that Magic Circle is the starting element for every ritual. This takes time to cast but including it ensures that things with too many teeth, eyeballs and tentaacles do not take over while casting the rest of the ritual. You can take the chance and the risk lessens for high level casters. The risk might be minimal in a short ritual that only takes a couple of rounds. Raise dead might involve opening a portal to Hades/Shadowfell and bnipping through to fetch back the soul of the deceased, or summoning something and persuading them to do that and so on.

 

[Lwaxy]

I don't think you need a magic circle for every ritual, maybe at the lower levels, but for me this is something every GM should decide. Same as for example allowing all spells also be done as rituals, and how much they cost depend on how long they take.

You can always make some stuff ritual only. Calming down a volcano, protecting a settlement from the elements? Sounds like ritual only to me.


1 round is no time at all, not really ritual appropriate, even for the better casters, methinks.

 

[Rhenny]

At first, I liked how 4e did rituals, but after a while I found it too difficult to work with both spells and rituals. This forced a spellcaster to learn all their powers and separate rituals (and DMs had to really know more -- all the powers and the rituals).

I kind of like how 5e is allowing certains spells (in the 1 spell list) to be cast as rituals. Having 1 spell list makes it much easier to use for both player and DM.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I thought 4E rituals were a great concept, but were let down by too little evolution in execution. Here's hoping 5E cleans up the execution a bit. There's a vast library of prior-edition utility and long-duration spells just crying out for the ritual treatment. Casting a ritual should be a dramatic turn in an adventure, not just a one-off of a regular spell.

 

[Raith5]

I certainly agree that there are some spells that should be ritual only but a 10 minute casting time is too long to be interesting in situation where combats or other time sensitive events could occur. I always thought that rituals would be interesting situations where a party has to defend the wizard from attacks while he unlocks the door, disables the evil artifact etc. But 10 minute casting times makes this impossible.

I also like the idea of greater integration between rituals and skills in narrower timer frames. I think it may be useful for rituals having a skill challenge type of optional mechanic - ie 5 successful skill checks at high DC or 7 skills checks with a lower DC - so that the caster can choose their own level of risk.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't think you need a magic circle for every ritual, maybe at the lower levels, but for me this is something every GM should decide. Same as for example allowing all spells also be done as rituals, and how much they cost depend on how long they take.

You can always make some stuff ritual only. Calming down a volcano, protecting a settlement from the elements? Sounds like ritual only to me.


1 round is no time at all, not really ritual appropriate, even for the better casters, methinks.

Well how about 2 rounds per level of spell?

I don't have a strong opinion on timing but I would like rituals to be in the order of magnitude of a combat, so that rituals casting in combat could be a vialable scenario.

I am also curious does anyone else share my views or have something similar.

 

[Rhenny]

10 min or more is not too long for a ritual. Rituals add to the depth of a spellcaster by giving them the opportunity to cast utility spells and mundane spells without utilizing spell slots or magic points or daily powers (whatever your casting mechanism). If rituals could be cast at the drop of a dime, they would give ritual casters too much power. There has to be a limit.

Nobody wants to spend a spell slot on Comprehend Languages or Alarm. Instead, when the coast is clear, both can be cast as a ritual (expending the components and time), and the group gains the benefit. This is not unreasonable to me.

Protective spells as rituals can be used prior to entering rooms or before an expected attack, but they can't be enacted in the heat of combat. This too seems reasonable.

As for quickly casting a ritual to save the group from attack (like the Pechs in Blingdenstone) perhaps scrolls or Tomes will contain the ritual in form that is quicker to cast. We have yet to see how magic items (scrolls or wands) will work in 5e.

 

[GreyICE]

Protect the wizard while he's casting the spell is extremely boring if you're the wizard. Make NPCs 'cast the spell' if you want some big ritual thing. Also, no reason you can't do the attacks in waves, with 1-2 minutes between waves. Much more dramatic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

10-min and hour rituals really didn't make a lot of sense in 4e. 4e's pacing was very much around short and extended rests - much like 3e's was around rounds and days - rituals should have just said something like "you can cast this ritual as part of a short rest." That would have allowed rituals to be used - out of combat - without disrupting the flow of the adventure.

I find the basic 5e idea of having some spells give ritual-casting options, so that out-of-combat utility spells don't have to take up precious in-combat slots, OK. It re-unifies spells and rituals, making utility strictly the casters' bailiwick, again, which is bad for class balance, but has a certain conceptual elegance. In a magical world, it could have made some sense to have everyone able to work with magic in some ways, even if those ways were plodding, superstitious rituals. :shrug:

 

[tlantl]

I certainly agree that there are some spells that should be ritual only but a 10 minute casting time is too long to be interesting in situation where combats or other time sensitive events could occur. I always thought that rituals would be interesting situations where a party has to defend the wizard from attacks while he unlocks the door, disables the evil artifact etc. But 10 minute casting times makes this impossible.

I also like the idea of greater integration between rituals and skills in narrower timer frames. I think it may be useful for rituals having a skill challenge type of optional mechanic - ie 5 successful skill checks at high DC or 7 skills checks with a lower DC - so that the caster can choose their own level of risk.

The whole purpose of having ritual spells is that they are not for use in combat. They are expressly intended for the other pillars of the game. Clairvoyance being a ritual means you can use it to gain information before heading into the dungeon, Plant growth as a ritual increases a crop yield over a season, A guards and wards spell reduces the chances that your house gets ransacked while you are gone.

This is why they don't take up space in your memory, not to be free use spells while in combat or while barricaded in a room trying to hold off a swarm of dung beetles.

Perhaps some more robust rules in the spell casting section could reduce the confusion.

Personally I think 10 minutes is far too short a casting time. maybe ten minutes per level might be better, or maybe an hour/ lvl, they are rituals after all.