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<blockquote data-quote="mearls" data-source="post: 9590695" data-attributes="member: 697">I hadn't picked up on the wonkiness of the invisibility condition, but it's there. Here is the text for concealed:Concealed. You aren’t affected by any effect that requires its target to be seen unless the effect’s creator can somehow see you. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying is also concealed.It needs to say this:Concealed. You cannot be seen except by creatures that can specifically see invisible creatures. This benefit also applies to equipment you are wearing or carrying.I think that trying to use invisible as a condition for hiding tripped them up. The condition's source in theory should specify this. For instance, you wouldn't want that rewritten clause to apply to hidden creatures.The invisibility spell doesn't say anything about becoming invisible. It just says that you gain this condition. I suspect that someone decided to shift stealth to use the condition, with the understanding that the effect that made you invisible would carry a rider that gave more details. IIRC, they do that in other areas where the poisoned condition might also carry other effects (speed penalty, ongoing damage).I'm not a fan of that approach. You either need wide conditions that can account for a lot of elements, or narrow ones that are meant to carry as little mechanical weight as possible. The 5.5 design seems to try both approaches, leading to incoherence like this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mearls, post: 9590695, member: 697"] I hadn't picked up on the wonkiness of the invisibility condition, but it's there. Here is the text for concealed: [B][I]Concealed.[/I][/B] You aren’t affected by any effect that requires its target to be seen unless the effect’s creator can somehow see you. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying is also concealed. It needs to say this: [B][I]Concealed.[/I][/B] You cannot be seen except by creatures that can specifically see invisible creatures. This benefit also applies to equipment you are wearing or carrying. I think that trying to use invisible as a condition for hiding tripped them up. The condition's source in theory should specify this. For instance, you wouldn't want that rewritten clause to apply to hidden creatures. The invisibility spell doesn't say anything about becoming invisible. It just says that you gain this condition. I suspect that someone decided to shift stealth to use the condition, with the understanding that the effect that made you invisible would carry a rider that gave more details. IIRC, they do that in other areas where the poisoned condition might also carry other effects (speed penalty, ongoing damage). I'm not a fan of that approach. You either need wide conditions that can account for a lot of elements, or narrow ones that are meant to carry as little mechanical weight as possible. The 5.5 design seems to try both approaches, leading to incoherence like this. [/QUOTE]

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