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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9592323" data-attributes="member: 7037866">Actually this is part of the problem with the Hide action in 2024 and I posted upthread (or maybe in another thread...?) about it and why I am here discussing it.If you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you? Bullsht!t.Even IRL just because something happens to be looking in your direction doesn't mean it sees you. It might, sure, but even if it does you can't possible know that. You might suspect it, but that's it.Now, let's examine the actual rule:You must be out of an enemy's line of sight. This means the enemy's line of sight must be obstructed. Well, this isn't a problem if you are Heavily Obscured or behind Total Cover in most cases. There are outliers and expections, like with a wall of force (which is invisible but don't even get me started again on THAT!). Three-Quarters Cover does not block line of sight. So, right there you already have an impossibility and I would love for someone to explain that. But, moving on...So, ignoring the Three-Quarter Cover issue, Heavily Obscured and Total Cover break line of sight... but this works both ways with Total Cover! That means YOU can't see THEM, either!!! And really, since you can't be seen, any Dexterity (Stealth) check you make is really to be quiet.Heavily Obscured is a different issue. You are Heavily Obscured, not them. So, you can see them, but because you are Heavily Obscured they are considered to have the Blinded condition while trying to see you... Wait a minute! That means they automatically can't see you... so again, since you can't be seen, any Dexterity (Stealth) check you make is really to be quiet.So, what this boils down to is this:With Three-Quarters Cover, they have Line of Sight and can see you, and you can see them--so no Hide action.With Total Cover (barring edge cases), neither of you have Line of Sight on the other, so you are just trying to be quiet, not "hide".With Heavy Obscurement, same as Total Cover...As soon as you move from behind cover or out of heavy obscurement, you are seen due to Line of Sight being established, and lose most of the benefits from the Invisible condition.What the heck is the point of this!?!Simple. It is badly written and the lack of facing rules is the key problem. The DM (as always) has to decide when you can attempt to Hide (i.e. the enemy is NOT facing you--as you say--and cannot see you). But here's the rub:If the enemy cannot see you due to "facing" away, why do you need cover or heavy obscurement in these cases? You are already unseen!Frankly, it is a hot mess IMO, and any attempts to Hide are really attemps to move quietly so they don't HEAR YOU! Crazy...</blockquote>

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