Threatened area for large reach weapon

[mvincent]

Does anyone have a link to a picture for the threatened area of large creature with a reach weapon?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does anyone have a link to a picture for the threatened area of large creature with a reach weapon?

--------------
|............|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]******[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]**[/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange]**[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]**[/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange]**[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]******[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|............|
--------------

The orange (and blue) squares are within the ogre's natural reach - 5 feet or 10 feet away, or meeting the special case for squares two away diagonally being within the ogre's natural reach.

The green squares are 15 or 20 feet away.

Now, there are two rules for Large creatures with reach weapons:

A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

According to this rule, the ogre could strike the green or blue squares, which are 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent or up to 10 feet away.

Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to double their natural reach but can’t strike at their natural reach or less.

But according to this rule, he could strike the green squares only, since the blue squares are within his natural reach - they're 15 feet away, but are within the natural reach of a creature with 10' reach due to the diagonal exception.

So the blue squares are debatable.

-Hyp.

 

[Pyrex]

But what if the ogre is wielding a Spiked Chain?

(IMO, the Ogre should be able to hit orange, blue and green with the chain, but that's not *quite* what the rules say...)

 

[Hypersmurf]

But what if the ogre is wielding a Spiked Chain?

--------------
|............|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]****[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]*[/color][/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange][color=lime]*[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]*[/color][/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange][color=lime]*[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]****[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|............|
--------------

Green certainly; blue debatable for the same reasons.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Does anyone have a link to a picture for the threatened area of large creature with a reach weapon?

[IMaGel]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3590/largereachtemplateni3.th.gif[/IMaGel]

It seem fairly evident, at least to me, the spiked chain was intended to be able to attack everywhere within maximum threat distance. The text might not match up perfectly to that for larger users, but if splitting hairs that badly is needed to keep the spiked chain "in line", the DM should just disallow the weapon entirely.

 

[Alpha Polaris]

Please be seated, we hijack this thread

This reminds of a question we dismissed in a recent fight: what is the reach of a goliath (RoS) wielding a Large spiked chain ? The goliath herself is medium, but has a Powerful Build, which allows her to wield large weapons (among other things).

 

[frankthedm]

This reminds of a question we dismissed in a recent fight: what is the reach of a goliath (RoS) wielding a Large spiked chain ? The goliath herself is medium, but has a Powerful Build, which allows her to wield large weapons (among other things).

In 3.5 Reach is irrevocably tied to the wielder's size class. A medium creature does not gain more reach from a larger reach weapon. The Powerful build ability even expressly says the medium wielder of a large reach weapon does not gain more reach.

 

[Ender_rpm]

The correct response is: Not as far as a lightning bolt

 

[GorTeX]

--------------
|............|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]****[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]*[/color][/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange][color=lime]*[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]*[/color][/color][color=brown]OO[/color][color=orange][color=lime]*[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|.[color=lime]##[/color][color=orange]*[color=lime]****[/color]*[/color][color=lime]##[/color].|
|..[color=lime]#[/color][color=orange][color=blue]*[/color]****[color=blue]*[/color][/color][color=lime]#[/color]..|
|..[color=lime]########[/color]..|
|....[color=lime]####[/color]....|
|............|
--------------

Green certainly; blue debatable for the same reasons.

-Hyp.

of course, the FAQ (a dubious document to many) has this to say:

The description of the spiked chain states that it is a
reach weapon that can be used against adjacent foes. What
if a Large creature wields a Large spiked chain? Can it
attack the squares that are 10 feet away? What are the
adjacent foes of a Large or larger creature?
As with the vast majority of examples in the Player’s
Handbook, the spiked chain description assumes that the
wielder is a Small or Medium creature wielding a spiked chain
appropriate to her size. What the description really means is
that a character wielding a spiked chain can attack creatures
that are within her natural reach (in addition to those at the
normal range of a reach weapon). For a Medium or Small
creature, that means creatures that are 5 feet away (i.e.,
“adjacent”).
A Large creature wielding a spiked chain (or similar reach
weapon that also allowed attacks against adjacent creatures)
could attack creatures within her natural reach (that is, who are
either 5 or 10 feet away), in addition to those at the normal
range of a Large reach weapon (15 or 20 feet away).
A Huge creature wielding a spiked chain could attack
creatures 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30 feet away. A Gargantuan
creature wielding a spiked chain could attack creatures 5, 10,
15, 20, 25, 30, 35, or 40 feet away, and a Colossal creature
wielding a spiked chain could attack creatures anywhere from 5
to 60 feet away.

 

[mvincent]

In 3.5 Reach is irrevocably tied to the wielder's size class. A medium creature does not gain more reach from a larger reach weapon. The Powerful build ability even expressly says the medium wielder of a large reach weapon does not gain more reach.

Yup. From the rules (if desired):
"can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size."

From the 3.5 FAQ (if desired):
"A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but
only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the
wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach.
An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach
weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack
foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large
creature wielding a non-reach weapon).
A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach
weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further),
and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away
(as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A
human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach
from the weapon.
The Player’s Handbook isn’t as clear on this as it could be,
although an example of reach in action on page 113 in the
Player’s Handbook provides pretty strong support: “A typical
Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate
size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away . . .” [italics
added]. While this reference doesn’t mention the ability to
wield a reach weapon larger than the appropriate size, allowing
such a weapon to grant reach to its wielder is a reasonable
extension of the spirit and intent of the rule."