Thunderspire and the 5-minute adventuring day

[Thanee]

You are just too good when playing the monsters...

I certainly would expect a party like that to have few problems there, if any.

Have you noticed any specific problems, like have they trouble to hit, or get hit almost always and thus beaten down too quick?

Bye
Thanee

 

[MerricB]

They're nearly finished at the Duergar keep. They retreat to the Hall each time (they used the Wight room as a night's rest, too - I decided the Duergar wouldn't discover them there). So they return each day, and fight defenders moved to the initial gatehouse/portcullis. The keep's almost out of defenders now, luckily.

I could bring in reinforcements, but have no desire to prolong this agony.

Hang on a moment... Duergar Keep? And they're still level 4? What level were they when they started the adventure? By the time they end the Keep, they should be well into 5th level, if not very close to 6th.

The Keep has a lot of 5th and 6th level encounters. My experience with 4e so far has been that although characters can take on individual monsters that are a lot tougher than them (so a party of 4th level PCs could probably deal with an encounter with an 8th or 9th level monster), once you actually start raising encounter levels, even by only 1 or 2, they get a lot, lot tougher.

Cheers!

 

[Scribble]

More questions!

Are they actually using their resources up or just replenishing so they enter every fight at 100%?

Also does it seem to be that they enter 5 min mode after the loss of certain abilities above others?

-Example: My group tends to be ok with continuing with no dailies, but if they're down to no more Surges, they almost always retreat to sleep mode...

(Off topic this is kind of why I'm leary of Magic Items that Use Healing surges to power themselves. Just seems like a quick way to force the party into 5 minute mode.)

 

[Nymrohd]

Well superior numbers, plus a warlock and archer make up for the lack of a wizard. As I asked earlier, how often do they miss with their specials? Is there any observable deviation on the luck factor (your rolls consistently good, theirs bad)? What seems to be the weakness? They cannot focus fire mobs fast enough (would be strange with two strikers and 6 player)? They have to soak too much damage per encounter? They don't control the battlefield (again strange especially with two fighters)?

 

[Thanee]

Hang on a moment... Duergar Keep? And they're still level 4? What level were they when they started the adventure? By the time they end the Keep, they should be well into 5th level, if not very close to 6th.

With six they get less XP per encounter than they "should", of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[MerricB]

With six they get less XP per encounter than they "should", of course.

Assuming Morrus isn't scaling encounters; I do all the time in my run through the adventures, which has been from 3 to 6 characters. (The scaling has worked really well, too!)

Cheers!

 

[Nymrohd]

With six they get less XP per encounter than they "should", of course.

Bye
Thanee

Plus in direct attack power a group of 6 level 4 characters has a smaller arsenal of attack powers (3X6) than a group of 5 level 5 character (4X5) and a worse chance to hit as well (5/2=2, 6/2=3). And since the resources are quite limited, the additional set of actions per round has only a minor impact.

(I think Morrus said he is not scaling earlier).

You could do a test. Next encounter, lower every mob's level by 1, calculate the loss in XP on the encounter, and add more mobs that equal that value.

 

[Morrus]

So the adventure is hard, and the group is facing death pretty regularly, and they're being challenged.

Umm, why is that a *problem*? Isn't that, like, the whole point of adventuring?

Because the adventure is designed to be more entertaining as they slowly push their way through the dungeon, not retreat home after ever fight and assault the portcullis again.

Yeah, I could say that the Duergar inexplicably ignore the fact that their guards have been slaughtered and not do anything to protect themselves, and are still enoered eating casually in the dining hall after the fourth daily incursion. That's certainly an option. But it comes across, in-game, as pretty silly.

 

[Thanee]

Maybe they should just gain XP as if they were just five.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scribble]

Yeah... from the sounds of it, the 6 man party is moving through at a disproportionate rate, but not experiencing at the same rate... Now it's comming back to haunt them... (Or you)

So the choice aeems either:

Retool the encounters to match 6 players of their level.

or

Give them XP as if the encounter was designed for 6 players... You'll still have to adjust things for a bit, but eventually it should even out.