D&D 5E Tidal Wave Vs. Fire Elemental

[maceochaid]

While running PoA my players came across a fire elemental which my Druid immediately responded to by casting Tidal Wave, and since I didn't fully read the rules on Fire Elemental then did it on the second round. If for each gallon of water it takes 1 pt of damage, and two tidal waves contained hundreds (if not thousands, I can't remember our envelope calculations) it was an auto kill. It was a very disappointing end to a boss battle, and I'm nervous about future encounters with Elementals.

Would people have run that as an autokill?

 

[jrowland]

Its a table-specific thing, really.

I personally like epic, over-the-top results (PCs or otherwise). I am not too concerned about balanced encounters. That said, most encounters are balanced and bland, so when something like this comes up, huzzah! In PotA this is really an issue when going against "fire", or about 1/4 of the adventure. Let it ride, in my opinion.

But if you are concerned with an "auto-win" spam of tidal wave, then the next best approach in my opinion is to always say "YES, BUT..."

Create an obscuring fog that makes it possible for the enemy to retreat, or sneak up on PCs or what have you. Even more devastating: if near a place of high concentration magic water or fire, maybe STEAM mephits appear attacking everyone on sight within the obscuring fog...

When in doubt, think "what would J.J. Abrams or Michael Bay do?" (WWJJAD)

Another viewpoint is Tidal Wave vs. Fire Elemental is no different than Banishment Vs. Fire Elemental. It's not game breaking.

 

[maceochaid]

I love the idea of tidal wave vs. Fire Elemental making Steam Mephits! The magically conjured water combined with animate fire, makes total sense to me.

 

[iserith]

Would people have run that as an autokill?

Yes. Player decisions should have an impact on the difficulty of a challenge in my view.

 

[Imaculata]

I'd be fine with the players instantly killing the boss. How awesome is that? I've had something similar happen in my 3rd edition campaign. I had an epic boss fight with a mummy lord set up for my players, but one of the players grabbed a holy artifact from the local temple, set it on fire, and then hit a critical when striking the boss with it.

And yes, undead are immune to crits, but screw that, he was wielding a sacred weapon that was on fire. I had him roll for damage, and he rolled max damage! He instantly reduced the boss to dust.

This is the moment where you as a DM should let your players high five each other, while you laugh it off. Don't get frustrated about it. Nothing annoys the players more, than if they feel their DM is keeping the boss on life support. Don't be that guy. Let them have their victory, and do better the next time you design a boss fight. As long as your players are entertained, it is a good session.

 

[Vael]

Would people have run that as an autokill?

Yes. Then high-fived the player.

And then crafted a Steam Elemental that gets bigger and stronger when hit by water.

 

[jodyjohnson]

As a third level spell I would have let it be the equal of Fireball against fire creatures (8d6, 28 damage) which is more than 50% better then the normal 4d8 (18 damage). Probably toss in Disadvantage on the Save.

Once volume calculation based reasoning starts applying you're opening things up to gallon jugs of Alchemists Fire doing 8d6 or barrels of acid doing 400d6. But that''s just me.

It can walk through water, so it isn't like water is insta-kill. This is to represent to earlier edition restriction on crossing water.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

The easy thing to do would have been to treat the elemental as being vulnerable to the spell (double damage). In general though I think it is a TERRIBLE precedent to nerf a player idea because it is too effective, clever, or well-targeted. (It's also a terrible personal precedent for a DM to get too hung up on a particular monster, plot, obstacle, or challenge being a significant threat to the PCs).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Would people have run that as an autokill?

Yes, this spell is hyper-effective against Fire Elementals and significantly less useful against anything else. Having the perfect tool for the job should make any task significantly easier. It would have worked just as well against half a dozen such Elementals.

 

[jgsugden]

DMs often forget one key thing: You're there to tell the best story, not to make things hard on the PCs. If they come up with a great solution to a problem and a challenge you intended to be hard gets bested easily: Give them the win! They earned it. Even in a boss battle. If the PCs have spells that make challenges trivial - let them revel in their power. If they lure the Balor into hopping into the Giant Sphere of Annihilation? Awesome. It doesn't always need to be a long drawn out battle. Let them be Indy with their gun taking out the bad guy with the sword.