Tie on Trip, Who Wins?

[Infiniti2000]

The rules are pretty clear on this, so I don't know why so many people are saying the defender wins, or the attacker wins.

When opposed rolls for skill or ability checks tie, the one with the higher skill or ability modifier wins. If this is a tie, roll again. See page 64 in the PH under opposed rolls in the Skill chapter. Also, this is how ties with grapple checks are resolved (PH 156, Step 3, Hold). So the one with the higher Str bonus wins in this situation.

That's close. An ability check is "essentially an untrained skill check" and you add the skill modifier. That obviously includes the ability modifier, but should also include other bonuses like size and stability. For example, if you trip a dwarf and have a +3 ability modifier and the dwarf has a +3 ability modifier and you tie, then the dwarf actually wins because his modifier is really +7. This is actually what the grapple check does (highest total modifier, not just highest ability) and the opposed skill check does (highest total modifier, not just highest ability).

 

[billd91]

The rules on opposed checks on page 64 of the PH states that ties go to the character with the highest skill modifier on the die roll (roll again to break ties if modifiers are the same). This also boils down to giving the tie to whichever character rolled lower on the die and yielded the same end result... assuming there are no other situational modifiers, which don't seem to be included in the rule.

That's the RAW.


Personally, I kind of like looking at the defending die role as setting the DC the offensive role must equal or beat. This would, in effect, give the tie to the acting character. But that would be house rule material.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Imo

I personally like the idea of always rerolling on ties until there is no tie. The outcome of the roll + modifiers should be equivalent. It should not be something along the lines of "Well, when I roll a modified 15, it's better than your modified 15." That makes no sense to me in terms of the d20 system and modifiers.

The idea of the defender-rolling-a-DC has a problem in that it's no longer an opposed check. You can no longer say that the attacker 'beat' the defender because he didn't. The attacker in such a situation merely succeeds on a tie and doesn't beat anyone. It's like, "Yeah, we tied, but since your the defender, you get an additional -1 on your roll when we tie."

 

[Timeboxer]

You know, a lot of people say this, but I'm not sure why. After all, ties don't go to the defender when resolving an attack roll against AC.

I've played in games where people insist that this is true. Bugs the heck out of me, mostly because I have to point out that AC is a DC and thus there is no concept of a "tie," as in an opposed roll. I just go with highest ability score, though -- it's consistent with the way Initiative is ordered when two people get the same result, so it's easy to remember.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I've played in games where people insist that this is true. Bugs the heck out of me, mostly because I have to point out that AC is a DC and thus there is no concept of a "tie," as in an opposed roll. I just go with highest ability score, though -- it's consistent with the way Initiative is ordered when two people get the same result, so it's easy to remember.

(underlined) That's actually not the way initiative works and it's harder to remember than using the way initiative or grapple check ties work. To use ability score as a tie breaker you have to look it up as a special case from the total modifier (assuming it differs of course).

 

[Jdvn1]

(underlined) That's actually not the way initiative works and it's harder to remember than using the way initiative or grapple check ties work. To use ability score as a tie breaker you have to look it up as a special case from the total modifier (assuming it differs of course).

Well, although it often amounts to the same thing...

If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other.

There's apparently no stipulation for ever using ability score as a tie breaker, according to the SRD. The PHB rules differ slightly, I think.