Tips Needed: Gaming in a Large Group (8+ PCs)

[Destan]

Hi all.

I recently moved to the Leesburg, VA, area. After settling in, I decided to try my hand at recruiting a local D&D group for a new campaign entirely through the 'net. This was my first time at this, and I wasn't sure how it'd turn out.

Well, it turned out pretty ding dang dong well. I got a large and quick response. I should be happy, and I am. But...I was never good at telling folks "Sorry, we're full" - so now I have on my hands a group much larger than I originally intended. I did start to turn people away, but not until I had already accepted about 10 prospective players.

Yes, ten.

What I'm now looking for is any advice, tips, hints, or tales you might be able to offer if you've ever DMed or played in a group of 8 or more folks. I've always been a huge fan of keeping things moving, in combat and outside it, and I'm worried the sheer numbers will make that aim an impossibility.

I don't like to see players wait 10 minutes between combat turns (any more than they do). I don't want to see less outspoken players forgotten during roleplaying discussions; some of the best RPers I know were folks who, initially, were a bit too shy to talk. I'm afraid some burgeoning RPers might be smothered by the numbers before getting a chance to shine.

I don't expect too many of you have played in a group of 8 or more. I know I hadn't - until now. But, I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. If you have played in a large group, any tips you could give would be most appreciated. And if it didn't work out, then I'd like to know that, too.

I realize I may have to scale down the group, but I have no idea how to go about that without upsetting folks. Look for another blatantly pleading post should that come to pass.

Maybe I can kill off characters until a few players get sick enough of my DMing style to drop out, eh? Muwahaha!

Anyway, thanks in advance!

D

 

[Stockdale]

I run a pretty large group of kids in my Parent-Kid game (6 regulars, but it can get as high as 11 kids). I'm sypathetic to your trouble. I think that 6 can get to be too many player and 10 or more become too confusing (especially with kids who have -hey wait your turn - problems).

My advise to running this smoothly is know the charcters better than the players - so you don't have to break up the game with - what's your AC again. I found a chart online somewhere that I use to keep track of PC information. Samey with monsters, et al. - index cards or whatever. (index cards of all the players and monsters works pretty well for running an encounter with initiative and all).

I also use a 60 second egg timer to keep action moving. If time expires and they haven't gone, they've held their action.

I also have a problem, especially with spellcasters. I ask for a standard spell list, and to let me know ahead of time if they deviate from the list. Otherwise, I run into a - hey, that's your sixth CLW this day. You're only second level.- problem.

Well that's my two cents anyway. Good luck with all those people. I hope you at least have a fair share of experienced players to help with the new ones.

John

 

[Ramien Meltides]

We could always have a fistfight - last five gamers standing get to play!

Seriously, maybe you could set the first hurdle as arriving at the game - anyone who doesn't make the first session is OUT.

 

[Sidereal Knight]

You're a brave man!

I have been gaming with a large group for the last 7+ years. In that time, the number of people has fluctuated between 6 and 11. Here are a couple of things that I would suggest:

• Delegate someone you trust to keep track of initiative order during combat. We use a dry-erase board on a stand so that everyone can see it, and the DM doesn't have to worry about keeping track. NPC or other DM-controlled combatants are added either as generic "group" names or as we get to that position in order.
• Handle as much backstory, solo, or record-keeping functions as possible via email. That cuts down on having 7 people cooling their heels while one player monopolizes the DM with "off camera" action.
• If possible, sit in the middle of the table rather than at one end. Large groups tend to drift into off-topic conversations very easily, particularly the players farthes away from the DM. If you sit in the middle, that's a bit less likely to happen. (Assuming you use a table at all...)
• Have regular (annual or semi-annual) "meta" meetings where you and your players talk about the game. It's a great way to get feedback on how the game is going, and where the players want the game to go.
• Keep copies of your players' character sheets so that you can refer to them when designing challenges... and to make sure they're honest ;-)
• In large groups, it can be tough to give everyone equal time in the spotlight. Try to keep a record of who had the "focus" in your recent games so that you don't end up accidentally ignoring anyone.

I hope this helps.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I haven't run a group that big since college, but one thing I did back then that really helped was to split the group into three 'teams'. I took the three people in the group (besides me) that had a lot of gaming experience, and gave them two or three of the newer players to mentor. That way the new players could ask questions, get advice, etc., without distracting the DM. It *really* sped things up, since I didn't have to stop and answer questions when it came to their turn in combat. Also, I was lucky in that the players nicely aligned in terms of classes, so the mentor playing the cleric had another cleric and a druid, the wizard mentor had two other wizards, and the fighter mentor had a ranger, a paladin, and a thief.

 

[Davelozzi]

I have a big group (finally down to 7 players, but was 9 originally). Most of the advice above is good, but rather than using a dry erase board for initiative like Sidereal Knight or an egg timer like Stockdale, I use initiative cards. I've seen them suggested by tons of people now, though I learned about them through Piratecat, I think.

At any rate, just make an index card for each PC as well as each enemy (or group of enemies that share an iniative count). The colored cards are good for this as you can use one color for PCs, another for enemies, and another for other combatants (allied NPCs, animal companions, familiars, henchman, etc.).

At the beginning of combat, have everyone roll iniative as usual an put the cards in order. I usually call out "anyone got above 20? no?, how about 19...18..." and count down, so that I don't have everyone screaming out at once. Then just flip through the cards in order as you play. If someone isn't ready on their turn, hand them their card and tell them that their character is delaying. I only give five seconds or so, not 60. When they decide what to do, they can just hand it back to you and jump back in the order after whoever is currently acting. I often get past a few other players while the unready person is still thinking. This speeds up the time to play out the combat as well as giving the players a sense of urgency like a combat situation should.

The tips in the PHB (or is it the DMG, I forget) for speeding up play are pretty good too. If you trust the players, let them roll damage along with attack rolls and just ignore the damage if they miss. For multiple attacks, use different colored of dice (ex: my white d20 and d8s are alaways my first attack at full bonus, followed by black, then green).

Finally, if the other players know the rules, that helps. It's ideal if everyone has their own PHB, but at the least spellcasters should. And if they're casting a spell, they should be open to the relevant page when casting.

Finally, common sense. Try to keep down on the out of game chatter, and ask people to try to arrive on time. I award a small attendance bonus to XP to encourage that. An occasional bathroom/smoke break for everyone can give you a few minutes to think about the adventure and makes it less likely that people will be slipping away one by one and missing their turns.

I hope this helps.

 

[Shallown]

some additional ideas.

When in a heavy roleplaying environment (such as being in a town, village etc.) Let the players know that face-time will be equal so if they stay in groups the face time is increased. so in a 4 hour session everyone gets 1/2 and hour if three poeple stay together and move through town as a group they get 1.5 hours of face time which can be a lot more getting done in that time span then 3 individual 1/2 hour blocks. This also make less work for you becuase you only have to do 1-2 NPc's for 2-3 players instead of 1-2 NPC's for 1 player. It also gives them something to do in downtime since th PC's are together and they can roleplay without you being there.

This also leads to empowering the Players to run NPC's for you. If one or two players can handle running some NPC then let them. Maybe give them 3X5 note card with a guide to the npc and let that player run the 2-3 PC's for a moment. Its easier to get a 2 minute recap then to run the 30 minute discussion. It requires some trust but makes things a lot more fun for everyone. Also a good way to start out people who haven't GM'ed but who are interested in trying their hand at it.

This also works well in combat. If someone goes down in the party and isn't getting up or is guarding some side passage and isn't directl;y involved assign them an NPC baddy to run for you. Even if it is just doing the rolls it helps out. This takes some practice but it can work since out of 8 people you should have 1-2 that are willing and able.

Assign a rules guru. One person who is good at the rules, knowledgable, willing to judge by the rules without prejudice and let that person settle rules disputes and look up rules. Saves you time. If a rule becomes an issue then keep going only stopping if it means a characters life. Otherwise the kill in momentum isn't worth being correct.

While going through initiative if someone hesitates too long the automatically are holding their action. I had a problem with players taking to long but once I started skipping them in a fight they started being ready when their turn came around. If casting a spell or performing a seldom used combat maunever (like bull rush whcih we didn't use a lot) they need to have the book open to the relevant pages or have their info ready (like a detailed spell sheet if a caster) No reason you should n't know what you can do. I know this is more work for caster's but tough. If someone is new or just isn't handy with things like that I am willing to bet someone else is and you buddy them up or at least make it their responsibility to find help. As GM you always have enough/more work.

Its important to set the presedent early on that the players have to carry a bigger load when the groupis larger. My regular group was 6-7 players with a party of 8-10 between henchmen, followers and summoned beasties. Non of those people NPC's were my problem. Don't know what your summoned creature can do tough.

Worst part is it gets tougher the higher the level of the characters so it is easier to get the skills ingrained before it gets too tough to deal with all the factors.

Find or create combat sheets that are easy for you to use. I ofetn just made my own since that set better in my mind, though there are many good ones on line. I also kept copies of all the characters on a flip chart that allowed me to flip straight to each character. A binder with dividers would work just as well. It also serves to help plan sessions so you don't accidently throw something at them they can't handle, that should only done on purpose.

There are lots of little things speed up combat, rolling damage with rolls to hit etc. Letting the players know the stats of a opponent such as AC speeds things up. There are times to keep the mystery and times when it just waste time. Learn which is which. My players always figured it out but them knowing saved me time.

If you know every one in the group will need a save made at some point have them make it during a slow period. Sets them on edge a little when they don't know why they need a save and may save time later.

Hope this helps.

later

 

[Ramien Meltides]

When it comes to weeding folks out of a large group, I don't think that character death is a good method.

I don't think it's right to penalize someone for bad luck, choosing a low-hit dice class, or having a less-than-stellar Constitution score.

Consider what kinds of players you want to keep, then go from there is my advice.
Players I like to keep in my groups are: Punctual, creative, and willing to learn the rules of the game. I also give high marks for a good atittude towards the game and the other players.

Just my .02$

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Players I like to keep in my groups are: Punctual, creative, and willing to learn the rules of the game. I also give high marks for a good atittude towards the game and the other players.

Players that are not averse to spending some of their own money on books are nice too. Not to mention the ones that will bring food!

 

[CalicoDave]

I've DM'ed a group as big as 9 PC's before. Many of the previous ideas are good, especially the initiative card. My group (currently 6 PC's) uses them and it really speeds things up. Just don't put anything but offensive abilities on the card, because if you put Hit Points or saves you'll always be flipping through the cards and messing up the order. Also, putting the PC's Dex on their card is a good thing as then you won't have to ask each time there's a tie in initiative.

When getting the initiative value for the card, I find that it's quicker to go around the table and ask rather than calling out "anyone higher then 20..." etc. When I go around the table the same way everytime, the players pretty much figure it out and are ready, but when calling out the numbers there's always someone not paying attention and I have to back track. There can also be wasted time if the second lowest is 15 and the lowest is 2.

With the players' characters I really don't know the specifics of the characters. I really don't have to worry about them intentionally cheating so I can let the players do their own thing. When I make up challanges I just make something up without regard to a specific character having the solution; they'll always come up with something as a group.

I also just let the players get as involved as they want. If one just wants combat and he's happy just to sit 'till it happens then that's OK with me. The players can pretty much generate as much face time as they desire for themselves.


D.