To Cleric or not to Cleric

[GreyOne]

I've decided I don't want to include the Cleric class in my latest campaign, instead using Sorcerors and Mages as priests. Has anyone done something similiar? If so I'm in need of some ideas and areas where problems can come up. For example how should healing be handled? Turning of undead? (elementals, undead, fear and madness are four big themes in the world)

What I've got in my wee grey head so far is that the Gods in the campaign have powerful Champions who they endow with special powers, but priests are not bestowed with spells. If you happen to be a priest of X god, then you are either a wise man with a message, or someone who dabbles in or is a powerful sorceror or mage.

Ideas, comments, criticisms?

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah I'm siccing my bloodless titanspawn feated moon hags on your wise men! *is kidding*

Well while it's NOT my campaign my question is this. Undead, if they exist in your campaign, HOW will you deal with the fact they cannot be turned, rebuked or empowered by spells like Unhallowed, Unholy Aura or even just Harm spells?

 

[Crothian]

THis happened unintentionally in my game. No one picked a class with spells. So, no magical healing. It was set in a wilderness world so I had a few shamn and other primitive NPC spellcasters, but very few true Clerics. I took the heal skill and allowed it to do some basic healing. Basically for every set of five you beat the DC 15 by you cured 1 hp. It could only be used once per character per battle. I also created a feat Improved Heal skill which allowed for a superior number of HP to be cured with the Heal skill.

As for turning undead, why not just get rid of it. On the same side you won't have evil clerics commanding them so huge undead armies are hardier to get (not that they were ever easy). Undead is much more frightening if there is no real protection from it.

 

[loki87]

On the same side you won't have evil clerics commanding them so huge undead armies are hardier to get (not that they were ever easy).

No huge undead armies!?!?!? What kind of sick world do you live in?

j/k

 

[hong]

Well while it's NOT my campaign my question is this. Undead, if they exist in your campaign, HOW will you deal with the fact they cannot be turned, rebuked or empowered by spells like Unhallowed, Unholy Aura or even just Harm spells?

You hack them to pieces, or you blow them up with fireballs, just like any other icky otherworldy monster.

Is this a trick question?

 

[hong]

I've decided I don't want to include the Cleric class in my latest campaign, instead using Sorcerors and Mages as priests. Has anyone done something similiar? If so I'm in need of some ideas and areas where problems can come up. For example how should healing be handled? Turning of undead? (elementals, undead, fear and madness are four big themes in the world)

What I've got in my wee grey head so far is that the Gods in the campaign have powerful Champions who they endow with special powers, but priests are not bestowed with spells. If you happen to be a priest of X god, then you are either a wise man with a message, or someone who dabbles in or is a powerful sorceror or mage.

Ideas, comments, criticisms?

If you want a unified spellcasting mechanic for all magic-using classses, you could do worse than steal some ideas from the shugenja in OA.

 

[mmadsen]

I've decided I don't want to include the Cleric class in my latest campaign, instead using Sorcerors and Mages as priests. Has anyone done something similiar? If so I'm in need of some ideas and areas where problems can come up. For example how should healing be handled? Turning of undead? (elementals, undead, fear and madness are four big themes in the world)

Are you giving these Sorcerers the Cleric spell list? Then you've got healing handled. Just add Turn Undead as a first-level spell, and away you go!

 

[1StrangeFellow]

You hack them to pieces, or you blow them up with fireballs, just like any other icky otherworldy monster.

Is this a trick question?

Or there's my favorite low-level tactic of using Glue (from R&R), which is flammable, to stick them to the ground, and then walk up with a Burning Hands and set them, as well as the glue they are stuck to, on fire. The glue adds damage, as well as a little damage for a couple more rounds. Fun! But my DM rules that it smells bad and could create fumes (understandably so)... helps to be in a well-ventilated area.

Seriously, if you're not going to use the cleric class, ask yourself why. If the answer is that priests with magic are just dabblers or those who study arcane arts, that their power does not come from gods and there isn't a whole lot of divine intervention, then don't use Turn Undead. Turning is a cleric's ability to awe, cower or otherwise damage undead through the channeled divine power he gets from the Gods (or some variation of that theory - you have an effect because of your granted holy power). Remove the powers granted by a divine agent and there is no reason to have Turn Undead. If clerics/priests/shamen with magic are just sorcerers or wizards why even include Turning?

There are always spells like Disrupt Undead which will simulate Turning power through arcane magic. If you want more powerful versions the character could research a scaled-up version of this 0-level spell.

 

[Crothian]

No huge undead armies!?!?!? What kind of sick world do you live in?

j/k

I said it was hardier to do.

So, you convince the PCs that it's not going to happen that way when it does it really surprises them.

As for what sick world, I would have thought that was obvious.