D&D 5E To fudge or not to fudge: that is the question

[rollingForInit]

The text for the goblin ambush at the start of Phandelver calls for downed PCs to be knocked out and robbed rather than killed, so you didn't really need to fudge. Though I like my write-up better.

I would also note that it is a lot easier to pull the trigger and kill PCs if you're already prepared for the aftermath, such as by having back-up characters at the ready.

A PC can be killed outright if they receive a crit when they've got low HP. I think the goblins in that encounter did 5 damage, so if the 8 HP Wizard is at 1 HP and receives a crit ... it's instant death.

 

[iserith]

A PC can be killed outright if they receive a crit when they've got low HP. I think the goblins in that encounter did 5 damage, so if the 8 HP Wizard is at 1 HP and receives a crit ... it's instant death.

There is nothing stopping the DM from ruling that the PC is simply knocked out as per the module's text.

 

[Maxperson]

There is nothing stopping the DM from ruling that the PC is simply knocked out as per the module's text.

The rules prevent it. If the crit does sufficient damage, it will have enough damage left over to equal or exceed that 8 hit point wizard's max hit points.

"When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum."

It's "when", not "If" and "you die", not "you may die." There is no option there, so unless the DM is going to flat out ignore the rules, the wizard will die.

 

[GameOgre]

I make it a point to NEVER EVER alter the dice rolls or cheat for or against the player characters, EVER. Why even bother to play the game if you are not going to actually play the game? This rule is violated by only the most horrible of DM's!

This is a WELL known fact at my game table and something all new players are made aware.



There is one minor point of concession I am willing to make though. When rolling characters the point by system while adequate in most regards...ok, my players gone? See I cheat like I'm card shark in Vegas Baby! I fudge dice rolls(mostly by having 20 siders already behind my screen and if I need to cheat I just roll a die and act like the die I rolled is one of those that have been waiting behind my screen. I subtract hit point/add hit points lower and raise saves(I have a list of made up modifiers and reasons to choose from if it ever comes up) I write everything down as proof but I write so badly no one can ever really read what I wrote! I subtract whole encounters and make them up on the fly all to just keep my game fun. I HATE to kill player characters off unless they are really asking for it, it spoils the fun so I just don't. I take them hostage, enslave them, feed them to some monster that is not yet hungry ect.. Lucky for me I have two players who get tired of playing the same character pretty often and once they start just asking for a good death by being foolhardy to the extreme I just arrange for the bloodiest nastiest pc death I can think of. If I can make it seem just unfair bum luck dice rolls while doing that...all the better. I will suddenly make the stable boy the real murderer and the man who threatened them a innocent who was set up on the turn of a dime. Whatever makes the game more fun. My players really want this as well. When I try running a game and just let the dice fall where they fall the players quickly get upset. See they HATE CHEATING in ANY FORM as long as you know, they WIN. They want to beat the odds and win because they are awesome! When what actually happens most of the time is they do well for a bit and then roll sucky and die ending their fun. The few times for various reasons that we played like that, they had many issues with those games. So what they really want is the best of both worlds! They don't know about the cheating and so are AWESOME!


So besides that one little aspect of my game, no fudging EVER! THAT"S JUST NOT COOL!

 

[Azurewraith]

On a side not where's the point of playing if no one dies? I find much better player investment when the chips are down, the fat lady's singing and the coroner and death is walking closer

 

[iserith]

The rules prevent it. If the crit does sufficient damage, it will have enough damage left over to equal or exceed that 8 hit point wizard's max hit points.

"When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum."

It's "when", not "If" and "you die", not "you may die." There is no option there, so unless the DM is going to flat out ignore the rules, the wizard will die.

The rules serve the DM, not the other way around.

I'll add that in the example cited, the wizard has 1 hp and any hit will take him or her down to 0 hp. Since the module says that the goblins knock out and rob downed PCs rather than kill them, there is no need to roll damage because the outcome is not uncertain. Thus, there is no fudging.

 

[iserith]

On a side not where's the point of playing if no one dies? I find much better player investment when the chips are down, the fat lady's singing and the coroner and death is walking closer

I imagine the point of the failure conditions outlined in the goblin ambush encounter is to make sure players can continue playing after the very first encounter of the Starter Set.

 

[Azurewraith]

I imagine the point of the failure conditions outlined in the goblin ambush encounter is to make sure players can continue playing after the very first encounter of the Starter Set.

Ye I sussed this out after re-reading and pondering. I suffer from the problem that my brain and mouth(fingers) don't like each other and only communicate during brief mediation periods.

 

[Maxperson]

The rules serve the DM, not the other way around.

I understand that, but if you are just going to ignore the rules willy nilly, they really serve no purpose.

I'll add that in the example cited, the wizard has 1 hp and any hit will take him or her down to 0 hp. Since the module says that the goblins knock out and rob downed PCs rather than kill them, there is no need to roll damage because the outcome is not uncertain. Thus, there is no fudging.

I disagree. The outcome is not certain. The only thing that is certain there is the intent of the goblins. The goblins, however, have no ability to stop the unplanned crit from happening, so despite their intent to knock out the PC, death occurs. Criminals accidently kill people they just intend to knock out all the time.

Edit: Never mind. I shouldn't post when tired. I forgot the knockout rules.

 

[Maxperson]

I make it a point to NEVER EVER alter the dice rolls or cheat for or against the player characters, EVER. Why even bother to play the game if you are not going to actually play the game? This rule is violated by only the most horrible of DM's!

This is a WELL known fact at my game table and something all new players are made aware.



There is one minor point of concession I am willing to make though. When rolling characters the point by system while adequate in most regards...ok, my players gone? See I cheat like I'm card shark in Vegas Baby! I fudge dice rolls(mostly by having 20 siders already behind my screen and if I need to cheat I just roll a die and act like the die I rolled is one of those that have been waiting behind my screen. I subtract hit point/add hit points lower and raise saves(I have a list of made up modifiers and reasons to choose from if it ever comes up) I write everything down as proof but I write so badly no one can ever really read what I wrote! I subtract whole encounters and make them up on the fly all to just keep my game fun. I HATE to kill player characters off unless they are really asking for it, it spoils the fun so I just don't. I take them hostage, enslave them, feed them to some monster that is not yet hungry ect.. Lucky for me I have two players who get tired of playing the same character pretty often and once they start just asking for a good death by being foolhardy to the extreme I just arrange for the bloodiest nastiest pc death I can think of. If I can make it seem just unfair bum luck dice rolls while doing that...all the better. I will suddenly make the stable boy the real murderer and the man who threatened them a innocent who was set up on the turn of a dime. Whatever makes the game more fun. My players really want this as well. When I try running a game and just let the dice fall where they fall the players quickly get upset. See they HATE CHEATING in ANY FORM as long as you know, they WIN. They want to beat the odds and win because they are awesome! When what actually happens most of the time is they do well for a bit and then roll sucky and die ending their fun. The few times for various reasons that we played like that, they had many issues with those games. So what they really want is the best of both worlds! They don't know about the cheating and so are AWESOME!


So besides that one little aspect of my game, no fudging EVER! THAT"S JUST NOT COOL!

I agree with most of that. That said, I only really fudge rolls if extreme bad die rolling luck is going to kill them off. The players want death to be a real thing, so I fudge to even up that bad luck, leaving them with the chance to die still. However, if they are making bad decisions like walking up to a dragon's lair at 1st level to see if they can make off with a jewel or charging the enemy army by themselves, no fudging will occur.