To Heal or Not to Heal

I would be perfectly happy if hit points restored after a short rest. I know that this would annoy the crap out of a lot of people, but, honestly, this is the best solution for me.
Im with you on this. I would like effective out of combat healing. Its the best solution to me.

I have always enjoyed the cleric, every aspect. From the general flavor (I like playing the fanatic, gives the something "RP" I can sink my teeth into) to the whole support role bit.

What I have always HATED is having all these great spells at my disposal, but having to give it all up to heal outside of combat. I remember playing rolemaster priest and not using all my really cool spells in a fight because I had to hold onto mana for post combat healing. It sucked, suck-didly-ucked.

I dont mind healing during the fight so much, but I think in-combat healing shouldn't be so much that you can indefinitely offset incoming damage in a matched scenario even for a focused combat healer. Its an option in the cleric combat arsenal, not his only purpose.

If players could heal themselves after combat WITHOUT having to use up the cleric's resources, that would be perfect. In combat healing becomes an emergency option, and out of combat healing not the clerics responsibility. Like it, like it alot.
 

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I'm not surprised to find that once again, Hussar and I have extremely different ideas about how the game should work...

I categorically do not want to separate wounds and hit points. Optional rules module? Fine. Base rule? No. I know a lot of people want to see these sorts of dramatic changes, but we've got to remember that the premise of 5E is about uniting the previous editions. A change like that one isn't uniting at all.

I do like 'second wind'. I'm not opposed to the restoration of some HP at the end of a battle. I just think it should be a bit more along these lines:

• Heal con-mod HP at end of battle
• Heal level+con mod HP over night
• Heal 2x(level+con mod) for full day's rest
• Healing spells are more effective outside of combat (because you can cast them calmly)
• Non magical healing exists in the form of herbs, salves and potions.

I expect non-magical healing to be slower than magical healing, else what is the point of magic?
 



If you want to have a campaign that doesn't require healers, why not just give out healing potions?

As I mentioned earlier, the addition of healing wands pretty much gave me the same thing.

So, if I'm going to presume that healing wands are used, why not just build that into the baseline of the game? The end result is exactly the same and it's less fiddly. Win-win.

Zur said:
• Heal con-mod HP at end of battle
• Heal level+con mod HP over night
• Heal 2x(level+con mod) for full day's rest
• Healing spells are more effective outside of combat (because you can cast them calmly)
• Non magical healing exists in the form of herbs, salves and potions.

I expect non-magical healing to be slower than magical healing, else what is the point of magic?

Meh, fiddly. Why bother? What is added to the game this way? How is slower healing making the game more interesting?

As to the answer to your question - I'd say that magical healing is for two things: Status effects - like disease and the like, and for in combat healing.

And I'm not adverse to ejecting in-combat healing. :D Why not let magical healing be relegated to curing various disabilities? Poison, disease, blindness, etc. What is so great about Cure Light Wounds? Is it really so interesting that we need to keep it in the game?

Can anyone name a single instance where the casting of Cure Light Wounds was a real high point in the game? (Yeah, I know you can, but, it's a rhetorical point!)

Or, maybe healing magic comes in when someone is dying? If the target is brought below 0, they suffer all sorts of nasty effects and long term healing issues. But, if the magic guy brings them back, then they're hale and whole. Keeps magical healing in the game, keeps it important, but doesn't make it terribly dominating or really all that necessary.
 

I would rather see alchemical potions, poultices and the like for non-magical healing for between combat.

I would rather see healing potions (magical) be cheaper than have everyone and their neighbor able to heal themselves up between combats with a peptalk or other non-magical means.

My personal preference is still that the game should be baselined around a diverse party hitting the 4 major archetypes, so magical healing by some means (druid, cleric et all) being available as a starting point for how the game is developed.

You can run a party of 4 rogues, but it should be more difficult to heal yourselves, however you will crush skill type challenges or things requiring stealth. 4 wizards? You'll blast the heck out of masses of enemies, but if they close, you will be in trouble. 4 clerics? You can heal and take a punch, but a couple of locked doors or traps may stymie you.

Either way, we need some sort of non-magical healing, I just think it should be in item or some form that is more than just "everyone can do it on their own because...they just can"
 

I don't want a party to be forced to have a cleric (or a member of any other class). I don't want clerics (or other magical healers) to be forced to use up their cool spell slots on healing spells.

While I'm ok with the party without a cleric having a harder time fighting undead, I don't want that party to have a harder time with all combats.

I like being able to handwave after a day of rest and say the party is fully healed up. (which you can't actually say in OD&D without magical healing).

But for some reason, the whole healing surge, second wind mechanic doesn't feel right to me.

I want self-healing to either be magical, or to require time and rest.
I agree. I prefer the whole 3.5 setting and rules.

I just let them be able to buy lots of healing potions when they are in town.
 

What I have always HATED is having all these great spells at my disposal, but having to give it all up to heal outside of combat. I remember playing rolemaster priest and not using all my really cool spells in a fight because I had to hold onto mana for post combat healing. It sucked, suck-didly-ucked.

Spell casters who can heal should be able to have fun, not be forced into providing healing.
 

My unity edition hit point proposal:

Core

We'll assume some reasonable set of hit points, not too large, and balanced with the math.

You have two buckets that hit points can go in, "Hits" and "Points". By default, exactly half of your hit points go in each bucket. (If odd, put extra in "Points".)

"Points" are all the things that hit points have every been, except physical damage--but including narrative plot protection along with luck, fatigue, etc. The key point with respect to tradition is that except for being more worried (and thus perhaps more cautious), you fight just as well at 1 as you do at max.

"Hits" are pretty much "hit points as meat"--with perhaps a dollop of extreme fatigue/exhaustion, several pain effects, shock, etc. It's up to you where you draw the exact line, but there is no doubt that when you have damage here, you feel it.

In the core, the only direct, default difference is that if you are down any "Hits", you are "bloodied" and have a -2 to all attacks (but not defenses/saving throws, as we don't want too much of a death spiral by default). Alternately, this penalty might apply to skill checks. Alternately, there might be a handful of "bloodied" options that key on this state.

When you reach zero "Hits", you are dying. You must make a death save each round, or die. You can take no other actions.

With a short rest (as defined in 5E terms thus far), you can regain all "Points". In-combat restoration of "Points" is possible, though slightly biased against. Perhaps it is not proportional, and thus is used as a somewhat inefficient means of keeping characters up in a pinch. You can't restore "Hits" in combat at all, absent rare and limited magic. Out of combat depends on a host of variant options picked to fit the campaign (not listed here).

Common Variants (explained in the initial book)

"Hit Points as Meat--Hurts All the Time" - Everything goes in "Hits".

"Narrative is King, Baby" - Everything goes in "Points".

"I Played a Wound/Vitality System on TV" - "Hits" are equal to Con score. Remainder goes into "Points".

Common Options (also explained in the initial book)

"Not a Shread of Death Spiral" - No penalties for being out of hits, though you may still have some roughly balanced positive/negative effects from "bloodied" and/or longer term effects.

"Early D&D Hardcore" - Hit zero on the old "Hits" score, you die--no save, no muss, do not collect 200 dollars--you die.

"I Like Me Some Fiddly" - Various "wounding" options that key off of various things, such as each piece of damage to "Hits", crossing thresholds in same, etc.

"Changing the Dynamics" - Various options that change the pacing of play, such as critical hits bypassing "Points" and other such things.

Comments

The key piece of this is that you do most of your style changes by simply changing which of two buckets the "hit points" go into. Since the "hit point" totals are the same either way, it is easy to balance adventures around this. If you want to go 100% "Hits," then presumably you have arranged to deal with that. If you want to go 100% "Points," ditto. They can give some basic advice on what this might mean, for beginners, and move on. Meanwhile, anyone that wants one simple total, and no muss, is only having to deal with a divided HP line in monster/NPC entries (e.g. HP 30/31). I think it's a small price.

Depending upon which options you pick, there are, of course, sometimes more convenient ways to think about the HP, for tracking.

Moreover, the "options" that start to have more effect than this are not so baked in that you can't see what they do, or how they do it. So if you, for some strange reason, really like 35% "Hits" and 65% "Points", all you'll need for that is basic multiplication. If you want to have a "critical hit table" with gruesome results, you know what it affects. If you want your mindless constructs to be all "Hits" even though no one else is, you know how that works.

Also, if a 5E DDI tool has this kind of thing built in (two actual buckets), it's not much harder to give people some ways to customize that off of a single total. Now your monsters and characters are printed out consistently with whatever rules you have adopted. It's a bit more trouble if you assume one bucket.
 
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