To Mystically-Modernize Spycraft?

[FCWesel]

I have heard, farily often, of how Spycraft is superior to D20 Modern at the core level comparisons of the games.

My question is, if you liked spycraft over Modern, how would you introduce magic (or more to the point, a system of magic) to the Spycraft rules set?

Let say, for example you wanted a toned down Shadowrun-like game, medium magic and lower-tech level (2003 real world equiv to cybernetics bascially)...how would you bring about the magic from a mechanics POV?

Thanks.

 

[Voneth]

Buy the Shadowforce Archer book? And then after that the Hand of Glory (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=active&reviewer=Psion&product=THOG) book?

The S.A. book introduces three optional paranatural things to the game. All three are used in the SpyCraft campaign world of Series Archer.

The three items are:
Chemical Monsters: Hooking up agents with super drugs that can give solid edges in skills and combat, but will tear you up if go cold turkey.

Ritual Magic:
A magical system that is mostly very slow, but can have long lasting effects. The Hand of Glory expands on the system, offers an organzation who's focus is mystism and then give mystic PrCs. Oh, the use of some magic makes you go mad.

Psionics:
A feat n' skills system for using a subtle to comic book range of psionic effects. You have to use action dice at higher levels to get some of the really power effects to kick in.

Depending on how you want to tweak your Shadowrun-like game, all you would need would be to make these things public knowledge (oh like the word returning magic to the streets) and then grab some high level characters and you are ready to go since the Snoop=Hacker, Wheelman=Rigger and Physical Adept=Shadowrun Monks (what ever their name was).

If you are new to EN World, the site has a reviews section that is fairly comprehensive. There are 3 reviews of the Shadowforce Archer book and they all mention the psionics and mystic systems.

 

[Corinthi]

Depending on how you want to tweak your Shadowrun-like game, all you would need would be to make these things public knowledge (oh like the word returning magic to the streets) and then grab some high level characters and you are ready to go since the Snoop=Hacker, Wheelman=Rigger and Physical Adept=Shadowrun Monks (what ever their name was).

The Shadowrun Monk is called, ironically enough, a Physical Adept.

But, with that, you're still not ready to go. As good as Spycraft is, Shadowforce Archer mysticism does not even come close to modeling Shadowrun Magicians.

The best place to ask this question is on the Spycraft Forums at www.alderac.com . There are some really talented modders who are using the design guidelines for Shadowrun classes to create all sorts of things, including magic users.

Also, send a private mail to Morgenstern. He's written up some /fantastic/ things in his spare time for fantasy oriented Spycraft and may be willing to collaborate.

I think Spycraft would be a good engine for a Shadowrun type game, but it'd need some substantial modding. You'd need a way to track wealth and the effects thereof. You'd need to decide how to handle Essence, Cyberware, and Bioware. You'd need some good rules for spirits, summoning, and magic. Races would be easy using macro departments, although Trolls might be tough to balance fairly. It'd be a lot of work, but doable.

All that said, why not just use Shadowrun? Shadowrun is one of those games who's system is intricately tied into the 'feel' of the game. Fanpro is still publishing books for 3rd Edition Shadowrun, which is light years better than it's previous successors. I realize some people have trouble dealing with the dice pools in Shadowrun, but the system's not that complex.

 

[FCWesel]

All that said, why not just use Shadowrun? Shadowrun is one of those games who's system is intricately tied into the 'feel' of the game. Fanpro is still publishing books for 3rd Edition Shadowrun, which is light years better than it's previous successors. I realize some people have trouble dealing with the dice pools in Shadowrun, but the system's not that complex.

Thanks for the great post and suggestions.

Well, I played and was a big fan of 1st Ed Shadowrun when it first came out and for a number of reasons have not, oddly, cared for what has come about in 2nd and 3rd ediitons...which has kind of sour'd me to the whole of SR...I lost the 1st ed book I had in a move somehow and only have the 3rd available to me currently (I own it).

You are right, its not too complicated--though it is intimidating looking for new players.

I have all these D20 books, would like to use them.

I want a "less" Shadowrun game. Think today, 2003, SR without the advanced Tech and lower "angsty"; a modern game with some magic. SR if far to Technical for what I want.

Thanks again.

 

[mroberon1972]

Try four colors to fantasy. It works well for superheros, physical adepts, and "magicians". It balances well too...


Mr. Oberon

 

[Corinthi]

I'll second Four Color to Fantasy, although you might want to tweak it a bit too for use with Spycraft.

Spycraft classes are /much/ more competant that a corresponding D20 Modern class. Giving up one of those class levels for 8 HPS might not /exactly/ work. Depends on just how they abuse the HPs you give them.

I've mixed 4CtF w/ Spycraft for a Deus Ex one shot. It worked remarkably well.

 

[Tsyr]

I want a "less" Shadowrun game. Think today, 2003, SR without the advanced Tech and lower "angsty"; a modern game with some magic. SR if far to Technical for what I want.

Thanks again.

It sounds to me like D20 Modern's "Urban Arcana" setting is exactly what you are looking for...

I have both Urban Arcana and Shadowforce Archer, and honestly, I think you are looking at a LOT less work to get UA to fit the mold you are after than SA.

 

[Garmorn]

D20 Modern might be closer. After ready several threads that compare the to, the big diffrent that most who have played both is the power level. Spycraft is one James Bond/Sherlock Homes level while D20 M. is closer to Hillstreet Blues and other lower power/gritter games. While Shadowrun could go both ways the lower power and gritter game would fit it better.

 

[Corinthi]

While Shadowrun could go both ways the lower power and gritter game would fit it better.

Have you actually played Shadowrun? Low power and gritty do /not/ describe a Shadowrun game. PCs in Shadowrun are extremely skilled and versatile right out of Chargen. D20 Modern doesn't strike me as an appropriate fit for a core ruleset if you wanted to capture a genuine Shadowrun feel. D20 Modern would do Cyberpunk 2020 relatively well, but not Shadowrun.

All that said, one could easily mix Urban Arcana and Spycraft. Any ability that requires spending an action point now requires an action die. Beef up the advanced classes with the Spycraft 8 pt class design philosphy. The main strength of the D20 System is how easily one can make modular changes.

Now, these are purely my opinions. The real issue is just what sort of game you prefer. Spycraft is more kinetic and action oriented, where D20 Modern requires more finesse to avoid horrible and sudden death. Both Action Dice and Action Points can adequately represent Karma. D20 Modern's FX is flashier than Spycraft's Mysticism, but Spycraft has crunchier classes. The two systems each have strong and weak points. It's just a matter of which one you prefer.

I think any Shadowrun conversion would be challenging to pull of and basically comes down to what sort of game the GM wants to run and is willing to put in the work for. I'll happily shoot out advise and my own half baked ideas, but at the end of the day, would rather dust off my Shadowrun books than try to shoehorn the feel of Shadowrun into a D20 system.

I wouldn't say no to a Shadowrunesque Polyhedron Mini Game though...

 

[Garmorn]

Have you actually played Shadowrun? Low power and gritty do /not/ describe a Shadowrun game. PCs in Shadowrun are extremely skilled and versatile right out of Chargen. D20 Modern doesn't strike me as an appropriate fit for a core ruleset if you wanted to capture a genuine Shadowrun feel. D20 Modern would do Cyberpunk 2020 relatively well, but not Shadowrun.

I wouldn't say no to a Shadowrunesque Polyhedron Mini Game though...

Yes, I have. While I will agree with the precieved power level, it also has the low power gritty feel. I will admint that it could just as easliy have felt different for you. Most of my characters where getting shot up and had a hard time on the so called easy runs. Could well have been the Game Master's style.