D&D 5E Toll the Chest

[Hriston]

But they're not fooled by it! They don't believe it to be a normal chest!

They don't need to. That isn't a requirement of surprise. All they need to do is not directly perceive that it's a threatening creature.

This is just stupid. What if it is a troll? We don't know a troll is a threat either, it could be a friendly troll. Do we now roll stealth vs perception to see whether we are surprised by a troll in plain sight?

This is D&D. A troll is clearly a threat.

 

[James Gasik]

This sort of thing can go around and around. What about creatures that look like things, but don't have a specific ability saying they can disguise themselves? Does a Stone Golem look like a statue?

Is an animated table a table, or obviously a creature?

If my Fighter wears a pointy hat and robes, will he be mistaken for a Wizard? Well obviously not, any DM would demand some sort of check in this case. Likely not Stealth, mind.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They don't need to. That isn't a requirement of surprise. All they need to do is not directly perceive that it's a threatening creature.

They absolute suspect it to be a threatening creature.

This is D&D. A troll is clearly a threat.

Now you fail to follow your own logic. The characters may suspect it is threat, but they haven't perceived it to be threatening!

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, it would be absurd, if they had actually seen the mimic. But they didn't see a mimic. All they saw was a chest. They don't need to believe it's just a chest to be surprised when it attacks them. They just need to have not directly perceived that it's not a chest but a creature, which is precisely what happened.

There's no stealth happening, though. If anything, it would be a deception check and Mimics suck at those.

 

[Maxperson]

This sort of thing can go around and around. What about creatures that look like things, but don't have a specific ability saying they can disguise themselves? Does a Stone Golem look like a statue?

Is an animated table a table, or obviously a creature?

If my Fighter wears a pointy hat and robes, will he be mistaken for a Wizard? Well obviously not, any DM would demand some sort of check in this case. Likely not Stealth, mind.

Yep. Which is why these creatures don't use stealth or deception like those others do. They have a special ability that gets them around it. Otherwise Mimics, Ropers, etc. would be the same as Animated Tables, Golems and your Fighter dressed as a Wizard.

 

[cbwjm]

This is D&D. A troll is clearly a threat.

So is a chest in the middle of an empty room.

 

[James Gasik]

So is a chest in the middle of an empty room.

Or as an earlier post pointed out, a Gazebo!

 

[Hriston]

They noticed a chest, which they are suspicious of and are completely ready for it to attack them.

That's not how surprise works. You can go around ready for things to attack you all day. As a DM, I assume the PCs are always suspicious of their surroundings. You'll still get surprised, though, if you haven't noticed a threat when combat starts.

Yes it is. If you are walking down the street holding a gun and I notice you, I've noticed a threat. Even if you have no intention of shooting at me. Same if you are just walking down the street in a super bad mood with no weapon drawn. If I'm watching you just in case you might be a threat, you cannot possibly surprise me.

Sure, but in that case you're noticing me, and I am a threat! If, on the other hand, I'm hidden behind a wall, and you notice the wall and perceive it as a threat because you think it might fall on you, you still haven't noticed me!

The Mimic is 100% not hidden. It's right there for all to see.

It's hidden by its False Appearance just as in the example above I'm hidden by the wall.

 

[Hriston]

Heck @Hriston, it wouldn't even be stealth at all. It would be deception which involves disguises and passing yourself off as something that you are not. The Mimic is literally doing nothing that stealth applies to. It has no proficiency at deception.

It's trying to remain motionless to maintain its False Appearance.

 

[Hriston]

They absolute suspect it to be a threatening creature.

That's... not the same thing.

Now you fail to follow your own logic. The characters may suspect it is threat, but they haven't perceived it to be threatening!

A troll is a threat, and it doesn't have False Appearance. Have they noticed it? Then they've noticed a threat.